ne3go's Grow Blog 2013

[workhorse_01]

The thing is, some varieties wont turn yellow. My Zimmer Spanish goes straight from green to a light brownish red. Like the second pic from the bottom. It depends on the type of tobacco. Also curing more than one type of tobacco at the same time doesn't work. Different varieties cure at different paces. If you air cure (hard for you with low,low humidity) you will see the bacca change at different times.

 

[deluxestogie]

The following is just a guess.

Because of your growing conditions (dry, windy), at the time you prime a leaf it is already low in moisture.

Your leaf seems to behave in a way similar to my tip leaf that was left at the top of the stalk for most of the summer. That leaf was thick and leathery, and initially appeared to dry green, although it was still flexible with its resinous content. I allowed these to hang in the shed throughout the winter. By the following late spring, most of that leaf had lost its green on the top surface, but still appeared a dull green on the under surface. I placed these in the kiln at 120-130ºF (65-80% RH) for 1 month. Most of these emerged thick, rubbery, and as dark as black coffee, with no green. They still feel oily, burn well, and are deeply flavorful. Depending on the variety, some are potent, some are mild.

Finished tip leaf after shed hanging 9 months, and kilning 1 month.

Your leaf that falls to the ground likely absorbs greater humidity during the night, from condensation of sea breezes as the temperature falls. How do they smoke?

It seems you have nothing to lose trying sun-curing, with the leaf strung just above the ground. Maybe even spread on the ground, covered with a plastic sheet to hold them in place and retain the ground moisture.

Bob

 

[ne3go]

workhorse: i air-cure inside my kiln so the humidity is 70-75%. That'a why i wonder about leaf yellowing.Maybe it's different varieties issue.


deluxestogie: my leaves look the same - green but not completely dry, leathery like. Some of them will go to the sun, and some left in the garage until change color...Have some leaves dropped in the ground and dried brown, haven't smoke anything yet. I'd like to roll a small cigar with them, when try will let you know about their taste.

 

[ne3go]

Ok, after a long time, a little update.
The sucker plants have been removed, and all their leaves are hanging in my garage. Hope to cure, but temp is low now (60 F) so don't know how long it will take.
All the leaves of my mother-plants, after 1-3 months hanging, they had a little greenish color here and there. So i decide to take them out in the sun. After a week, they all seem better with a brown to dark brown color.

So now the kilning part. I put leaves in my kiln, where the RH is 70%. The problem is with temperature...
The kiln is made of styrofoam. Tried to seal all the leakages, but the insulation isn't the best.
My crocpot if set high, can rise up the temperature, but evaporates quickly the water...had to refill it every 2 hours, not possible when sleeping or working.
I put three 60W lamps to raise the temperature, but lamps inside a styrofoam box with a lot of leaves, is a great danger of fire. I turn them on during the day and off at night.

My temp is 120-123 F the day and drops to 80F at night. Is this a descent way for fermentation?
If leaves need a constant temperature, how should i raise it without the risk of fire?

 

[leverhead]

.....My crocpot if set high, can rise up the temperature, but evaporates quickly the water...had to refill it every 2 hours, not possible when sleeping or working.
I put three 60W lamps to raise the temperature, but lamps inside a styrofoam box with a lot of leaves, is a great danger of fire. I turn them on during the day and off at night.

My temp is 120-123 F the day and drops to 80F at night. Is this a descent way for fermentation?
If leaves need a constant temperature, how should i raise it without the risk of fire?

As I understand it, aging is an enzymatic process. Kilning is just a way of maintaining the best conditions for it to proceed quickly. So if your set-up is at temperature and humidity half of the day, it would take twice as long to get to the same end.

I've been using a float valve to keep water in my crock pot, I'll get a picture of my set-up this afternoon. If you have an agricultural supply locally, you should be able to find one there. Be sure to check the temperature rating for it.

 

[ne3go]

Thanks leverhead, so just leave it about 2 months and will be ok.
I'd like to see the float system of yours, just to get an idea.
Also i wonder if the leakage of my kiln, effects more the RH or the temperature...

 

[leverhead]

I'm sorry for not getting a picture yesterday, I never got to the shop. This is a link for the valve assembly I used, http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Evaporative-Cooler-Valve-and-Float-6AMA7?Pid=search. I feed mine by siphon/gravity from a 5 gallon bucket on top of the refrigerator with vinyl tube. Somebody posted a picture a while back of carburetor float valve doing the same thing, that might be easier for you to get.

If you're losing humidity, you're losing heat. For the conditions you're trying to maintain, 120 F(49 C) and 70% RH, a cold spot of 107 F(42 C) would start condensing water. It would give up allot of heat at the same time. Sealing up the box is important, but insulation is probably more important.

 

[DGBAMA]

Thanks leverhead, so just leave it about 2 months and will be ok.
I'd like to see the float system of yours, just to get an idea.
Also i wonder if the leakage of my kiln, effects more the RH or the temperature...

You can up heat to offset leaks for temp. No big deal. I found a leaky door even a little plays heck with trying to maintain humidity.

 

[ne3go]

Thanks leverhead, i understand the mechanism by the link and the description. Trying to do something similar, hope isn't much higher than my DIY abilities!
DGBAMA the sealing of my door should be ok, the problem is that the styrofoam i used is thin (2.5 cm) so my insulation from the garage environment isn't so good.

 

[ne3go]

I was thinking of geting a fan heater inside the kiln.
The heater will be conected to a thermostat and will provide heat and air movement, plus it will be safer than lamps for any risk of fire.
Do you think it will work, or the humidity of the pan-heater will cause damage to the heater?
And some photos of the kiln:

____


____

The white thing in the pan heater is salt from the water i use.It's our city water, a little less saltier that sea-water!

 

[deluxestogie]

Thanks for the kiln photos. They help in understanding your questions.

I think the underlying problem with temp/humidity control is the high external surface area of the kiln in relation to its internal volume--tall and thin, rather than short and fat. The construction and insulation would probably work well for a more cubical kiln, but I believe this one may benefit from the addition of more insulation--perhaps adding Styrofoam segments to the outside, that would fill in the areas between the framing members. Using a heat source to also generate the humidity is always a trial and error process.

In response to your question about using a heater with a fan, you should investigate the specifications of the heater: the operational range for humidity and temp. Some inexpensive space heaters are not adequately protected from high ambient humidity.

Bob

 

[leverhead]

Good pictures! I guess you don't have to buy much salt.

I think that foam board might be part of your problem, it's pretty porous to moisture. Is the (Aluminum) foil backed foam board available there? Here's a link to the kind of stuff I'm talking about. http://www.jm.com/insulation/building_insulation/products/can283_ap_foilfaced.pdf A single layer of it inside (foil side in) would help allot. Otherwise, nice kiln!

 

[Knucklehead]

Are you still experiencing problems in color curing or are you just trying to prevent a problem based on your temp. and humidity readings?

 

[ne3go]

deluxestogie: I was inspired by the refrigerators that many used for kilns, and some homemade kilns by other members. They're tall and thin!
I was thinking fan heater because here in Greece, a lot of people use those heaters as extra heat source in bathroom after shower. So, i could find one to work in high humidity.

leverhead: I laughed with "otherwise, nice kiln!"
In Santorini is difficult to find something like this, but you're right about the poor insulation of my foam board. I'll think of something to cover efficiently the inside of the kiln.

Knucklehead: My last green sucker leaves are just hanging inside the garage to cure (it will take 2-3 months, maybe all winter). So, all my brown leaves are inside the kiln now for fermentation process. I'm just trying to have a stable high temp & RH, without the risk of fire.

 

[leverhead]

leverhead: I laughed with "otherwise, nice kiln!"

Typing out words is easy, typing out meaning is hard. Your too far away to hit me, but I didn't really mean to be an asshole.

 

[ne3go]

Typing out words is easy, typing out meaning is hard. Your too far away to hit me, but I didn't really mean to be an asshole.

Don't misunderstand me, didn't really knew if you said that seriously or not. But my kiln is cheap-quick-bad made, and most important doesn't do the job right! That's why i'm full of questions.
So, i really laughed with the comment!!!
And....i'm just a flight away!

 

[deluxestogie]

I was inspired by the refrigerators that many used for kilns, and some homemade kilns by other members. They're tall and thin!

Folks often use them as kilns because discarded refrigerators are plentiful and cheap. They're not thermally efficient even when used as refrigerators. But they do have several inches of insulation. A fat, square refrigerator at the height of a kitchen counter would be ideal, but no one would buy one.

The shape of greatest thermal efficiency is a sphere: lowest surface to volume ratio. But any inefficient shape can be overcome by greater insulation.

Bob

 

[Knucklehead]

A couple of inexpensive items that may help with your fire worries are a timer to shut off the kiln at night in case you fall asleep watching the soccer game, and a battery operated smoke alarm mounted over the kiln. Neither will totally eliminate the danger, but both could help with your peace of mind.

 

[DGBAMA]

On the "personal heater" for heat source, look at my kiln build I detailed the ceramic heater I used. I found 2 limitations, an internal hi-temp cutoff of 125 deg (which was bypassed) then the built in fan failed at 135-140 deg. I replaced it with a high temp computer fan. Other than those two things, it is now doing well for me.

 

[ne3go]

deluxestogie: You're right about volume-surface, now the way to improve insulation is to add some more layers of good thick styrofoam inside.Try to find the one with foil like leverhead sugested, has the advantage of extra protection against fire.Or some blanket like yours in cozy can.

Knucklehead: I do turn it off at night, but want a solution that makes me feel safe. For example, a smoke alarm wouldn't help if i'm to work for hours.

DGBAMA:I saw the ceramic heater and the modifications, you've done a very good job. I'll try to do something similar.