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N. Tabacum x N. Rustica

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Tutu

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Fabulous China! Way to go! I hope that these are sincere crosses and not the result of unfortunate self-pollination.
Sucks to have to wait a season for you to try them out. You might want to send 10 seeds over for me to try straight away.
Kidding haha, seriously though, looking forward to you germinating them!
 

ChinaVoodoo

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Fabulous China! Way to go! I hope that these are sincere crosses and not the result of unfortunate self-pollination.
Sucks to have to wait a season for you to try them out. You might want to send 10 seeds over for me to try straight away.
Kidding haha, seriously though, looking forward to you germinating them!

The Isleta Pueblo seeds were much larger than these. These are small, like tabacum seeds. I am optimistic.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I thought this article was interesting for anyone who wants to take a gander

I feel like I would need to be shown how to do it. Someone with related experience could do a better job of this. Maybe it's as simple as changing a CV joint via Hanes manual, but it reads as beyond me.
 

plantdude

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I'm not real up on my tobacco reading so forgive me if this a bad question, but has anyone tried colchicine treating seeds? It may not have the glamour of a wide cross, but it could be a lot easier and have some interesting morphological effects on leaf size and many other features.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I'm not real up on my tobacco reading so forgive me if this a bad question, but has anyone tried colchicine treating seeds? It may not have the glamour of a wide cross, but it could be a lot easier and have some interesting morphological effects on leaf size and many other features.
I assume this is a technique that is used to create mutants?

I don't think it's unheard of. Delhi 76 is a flue cured tobacco that was created by treating Delhi-34 with gamma radiation.
Delhi 76
 

plantdude

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I assume this is a technique that is used to create mutants?

I don't think it's unheard of. Delhi 76 is a flue cured tobacco that was created by treating Delhi-34 with gamma radiation.
Delhi 76
Colchicine doubles the chromosome number. I've used it before in anther culture of rice. For anther culture the idea is that your taking a haploid cell, doubling its chromosome number so the cells are diploid then regenerating a new plant via tissue culture. It allows for the rapid creation of a homozygous line if used for anther culture. If you are starting with a diploid organism/cell (i.e. seed) the doubling of the chromosomes creates a polyploid (it would double the ploidy level in existing polyploids like tobacco as well).
It's a common practice used in horticulture/ag to try and get bigger flowers, leaves, etc. Of course it's also been one of the things that has sparked the interest of home Cannabis growers as well (to each their own I suppose) and there appears to be a fair amount of info on the net for what works in that species.
Just doing a quick google search I'm seeing colchicine levels recommended for tobacco anther culture, but didn't see anything in a very short search for seed treatment....at about .1% concentration so for tobacco trying a gradient around that level might be a good place to start. Too much colchicine to the seed is lethal, to little and the chromosomes don't double. A person would have to try a concentration gradient to see what works unless there is already published info out there. Colchicine is toxic to people and animals so caution should be used.

Just as a little trivia they use colchicine to treat gout in people. I had knee problems once and some quack of a doctor gave me a prescription for gout pills without testing me for gout. At that point I was in enough pain I took the pills without questioning much. About a week latter I'm at work and one my one of my friends is joking with me about taking colchicine for gout. I thought he was full of it until I went home and looked the medication up, it was colchicine marketed under a different drug brand name. Boy was I pissed... Turns out I don't have gout either.
 
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ChinaVoodoo

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Tobacco is tetraploid. By your explanation, I gather, you would be creating 8-ploid, whatever that is called. Doesn't sound like something I would want to play around with sans PhD.
 

plantdude

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Tobacco is tetraploid. By your explanation, I gather, you would be creating 8-ploid, whatever that is called. Doesn't sound like something I would want to play around with sans PhD.
Octoploid:) It would be a nightmare from a geneticists perspective (I'm grateful I work on a diploid species), but from an agricutural perspective it could be good. Cultivated strawberries are mostly octoploid some are even decaploid (10n). A person would be looking more at the phenotype than trying to figure out the actual genetics in this case - i.e. what gives a bigger plant, increases nicotine, etc... I know they use colchicine a lot with orchids and other species to get larger flowers and bigger plants.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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So N.tabacum, & N.rustica are both tetraploid. Most other N.spp are diploid. Curiously, although some of them have been smoked, like N.attenuata, only the tetraploid ones are really worth smoking from a gastronomic perspective.

If this experiment brings up any curiosity for me, it's more like, what would you get if you applied it to N.sylvestris.
 

plantdude

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So N.tabacum, & N.rustica are both tetraploid. Most other N.spp are diploid. Curiously, although some of them have been smoked, like N.attenuata, only the tetraploid ones are really worth smoking from a gastronomic perspective.

If this experiment brings up any curiosity for me, it's more like, what would you get if you applied it to N.sylvestris.
A tetraploid puttycat? 1595028342935.pngSorry, couldn't resist:)
 

deluxestogie

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This leaf was provided to me by @skychaser. Apparently, Nicotiana tomentosa is quite difficult to successfully germinate.

Garden20190917_4748_cigar_Ntomentosa_puro_700.jpg


It wasn't bad, but wasn't really great either.

Bob

EDIT: And if I recall correctly, much of its nicotine content is nornicotine.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I smoked some N.alata which I grew. It was grey coloured, and not very good. The leaves were fragile. It was difficult to cure.

Beautiful plants though. The aroma was widespread and sweet every evening. Worth growing and not smoking.
 
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