Comparison of TN90, MCY, MCB and MCX

[Jitterbugdude]

There has been much discussion in the past as to whether TN90 and Monte Calme Yellow (MCY) are the same plant. I decided to grow them side my side this year to see for myself. In addition, I grew some Monte Calme Brun (MCB) and some unidentified seed (MCX) that was sent to me. This unknown seed was either MCY or MCB, the person that sent it to me was not sure which one.

1. Plants/seeds came from:
TN90 and MCY-BigBonner (plants)
MCX-BarG (seeds)
MCB (a Canadian seed company) seeds

2. All plants were put into the garden on 13 May 2012

3. Plants were topped:
TN90 56 days later
MCY, MCB, MCX- 45 days later

4. Leaf Measurements (these were taken at 2 different dates to ensure I didn't catch one of the plants "sleeping". I measured the middle leaves
TN90: 14x26, 14x25, 12x25, 12x24. Average leaf size was 13x25- 2 weeks later the avg leaf size was 13x26
MCY: 9x26, 11x27, 12x28, 10x30. Average leaf size was 10.4x28- 2 weeks later the avg leaf size was 12x31
MCX: 14x26,16x26,14x26,16x26. average leaf size was 15x26- 2 weeks later the avg leaf size was 17x28
MCB: 14x26, 18x26, 15x26, 15x30. Average leaf size was 15x26- 2 weeks later the avg leaf size was 17x30

5. General Observations- TN90 and MCY have cream colored stems whereas MCB and MCX have dark green stems. TN90 has much wider leaves than MCY. The MCY leaves were considerably longer than TN90. Additionally, TN90 was topped 11 days after MCY.

6.My conclusions: TN90 is not the same as MCY. Reason: The leaf size is different and the time to bud stage is significantly different (an 11 day difference)
MCX is actually MCB. Reason: Both have the same days till bud stage and they both have green colored stems and the same size huge leaves.

Randy B

note: If (or when) I get my camera issue fixed I will post pictures of the various plants/leaves etc. Hopefully i'll do that within a week.

 

[deluxestogie]

Randy,
Very nice comparison info.

I inspected my MCY (actually the same seed and source as your MCX). The leaves average 22" x 13", with the largest (leaf 10) at 23" x 14". The stems are not what I would describe as dark green, though they are definitely not cream colored (like white stem burley). The blossoms on the MCX, however, are a very light creamy pink (rather unusual). How would you describe the blossom colors of your MCY / MCX / MCB?

Bob

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Bob, I did not note the flower color but, some are still blooming so I'll check tomorrow. As to the "dark green" comment. They are really just a green color but since they are right next to the cream colored stems they really stand out as dark (compared to the cream). I should mention too that I tried to take Brix readings of all my plants but kept getting extremely high readings ( 24 on the scale). I think what was happening was that iItried taking readings during the middle of the day (temps were 98 degrees f) and the sap was drying as quick as I applied it.

 

[Tom_in_TN]

Great job, Randy. I have TN90 and the MCX (seed from BarG) planted close together. While I have not measured the leaves yet, they do seem to match those 2 varieties. So, the MCX appears to be MCB or at least a very similar plant.

 

[Chicken]

i was really pleased with the way my tn90 turned out,,,

i didnt grow any of the other varities you mentioned,

but maybe next year????

 

[deluxestogie]

Randy,
I examined the MCX leaf attachment. A loosely wavy frill descends from the stem attachment down the stalk about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way to the attachment of the next lower leaf. (The leaf attachment frill pattern is the only morphologic trait that clearly distinguishes my Havana 38 from my Havana 263.) What are the heights (topped or to the crowsfoot) of the MCY and MCB?

Bob

 

[BarG]

Iv'e been waiting for these observations to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt, [If that is the case] Thank you Randy B. I still have 20 plants in the ground with one bagged yesterday. If I can help any with pics or measurements from my plants let me know Bob. Randy may have harvested his. Mine were planted later.
I have believed the MCX was MCY Cause Ive never seen MCB,MCY or Tn90. It has been an assumption From my first joining and inquiring on what this plant was. It was NOT an heirloom variety of that I have been certain.

 

[deluxestogie]

It was NOT an heirloom variety of that I have been certain.

I'm not sure what that means. What was the original seed source?

Bob

 

[BarG]

I'm not sure what that means. What was the original seed source?

Bob

Coffin nails website in the UK in 2009. When I first wanted to grow tobacco i had dial up internet and limited info. I am going on what I have been informed more recently and when I purchased the seeds I understood them to be a hybrid of sorts of swiss origin. My understanding of heirloom may be in question more than the seeds.

Monte calme, virginia and maryland, for a cigarette blend was sent o me. Out of 600 seeds I grew 7 plants that is the progeny of The MCX.

 

[deluxestogie]

Monte calme, virginia and maryland, for a cigarette blend was sent o me. Out of 600 seeds I grew 7 plants...

Did the seeds arrive mixed together, or in separate packets?

All of the heirloom varieties were hybridized at some point in the past. Once the offspring show a consistent set of traits, usually after selection during 3 to 7 growing seasons, then it is a new variety. If it has been around for, say, 50 years, then it is considered an heirloom. This is in contrast to first generation (F1) hybrids, which seldom produce seed that is true to type.

Purportedly, a Swiss agronomist created two strains, which he named Mont Calme Jaune (yellow), and Mont Calme Brun (brown). The former was partly derived from an unidentified burley variety, the latter from an unidentified Havana variety. The date of creation of these new varieties is something I have been unable to determine. The French national seed bank lists them as distinct varieties, but not specific accession date.

The fly in the ointment is coffinails.com. They tend to pay scant attention to specific varietal names. For example, they currently list "Havana," with no variety. In all likelihood, at the time you made your purchase, they didn't know that there were two distinct Mont Calme varieties, though they presently list both.

I'm strongly leaning toward Randy's conclusion that your MCX is MCB. But from coffinails.com, it might be a Japanese variety.

Bob

 

[BarG]

Bob
I truly wish I could have more info than this. My original purchase arrived in a single envelope with 3 separately sealed packets I believe they were foil sealed packets. Each packet was to contain 200 seeds. I miraculously managed to germinate and grow 7 plants all from the mC pack using jiffy molds and transplanting to my garden. From those 7 plants I let one flower and produce seeds which is the source for the MCX.

Only because Through Ftt I was able to eliminate it as being a virginian or maryland.

 

[BarG]

All of my research on the Monte Calme came up with the same information you stated in your previous post. It seems to be very limited as fas far as any documentary.

 

[BarG]

Did the seeds arrive mixed together, or in separate packets?

All of the heirloom varieties were hybridized at some point in the past. Once the offspring show a consistent set of traits, usually after selection during 3 to 7 growing seasons, then it is a new variety. If it has been around for, say, 50 years, then it is considered an heirloom. This is in contrast to first generation (F1) hybrids, which seldom produce seed that is true to type.

Bob

Bob

I Love when I learn something new. Even when I probably should have filed it away .

An old saying I just made up.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I just cut-n-npasted this from Coffinnails website. This confirms what I said about MCY having a cream stem and MCB having a green stem.. as well as MCX. He basically gives the same description of the leaf size.

Monte Calme Yellow, cream stemmed which is cigarette, yes your learning now. It's so close to the Virginia only the feel of the thinner leaf and more pointed ends define the difference. Smoking wise there is a difference, it's milder, a sturdy plant to grow, like Virginia and Havana will easy make two meters tall to flower provide you dig that extra spit and allowed the roots some room.
(Available in special cigarette offer)

Monte Calm Brun, green stemmed, This one's for you PIPE lads, thin large or even huge leaf, it has never disappointed me, bolt upright reaching for the sky and always a good crop.

 

[deluxestogie]

I would say, "Case closed."

Mont Calme Yellow: Tall, white-stemmed, burley derived.
Mont Calme Brun: Short, green-stemmed, large leafed, Havana derived (BarG's MCX).
TN90: earlier budding than MCY.

The correct spelling is "Mont Calme" or "Mont-Calme," rather than "Monte Calme."

New knowledge has been created.

1. Mont Calme Yellow and Mont Calme Brune are valid varietals with distinctive features.
2. BarG's "MCX" is Mont Calme Brune.
3. TN90 is not the same as Mont Calme Yellow.

Kudos to Randy!

Bob

 

[BarG]

You Guys have some very extreme powers of observation and thanks Randy for solving the mystery.

 

[Chicken]

i think they'd all make excellent cigg, baccy's.

may give them a try next year,,,

tn90. i know will be out there,

 

[BarG]

My average MC plant this year looks as good or better than last years best plant.

Seed Acclimation or good growing conditions?

 

[BarG]

Due to Jitterbugdudes and Deluxestogies research in to the MCB variety obtained from a few germinations,

A mystery was solved.

Members are welcome to try for themselves using 2011 or 2012 seeds. Pm me for seeds for 2013. FREE

 

[Tom_in_TN]

Yes, great work Randy. Thanks for doing the work on this variety. And thanks again BarG for those Mont Calme Brun seeds you sent me. The plants did very well. Not a tall plant for me at about 4' to the bud, but large, thick leaves that reach for the sun. I noticed they have a beautiful bluish-green color once they hit their growth spurt, and then mellowed to a nice deep green. Also, great to know it is a good PIPE tobacco.

I bagged a couple of those plants myself and should also have seed to distribute.