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Liquid/Foam fertilizer concept?

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Michibacy

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I've yet to mention this to my coworkers or really anyone else so I thought I'd bring it up here first.

I have used both liquid and powdered fertilizer. In my opinion you have to be careful with both. Liquid can burn if not mixed correctly and powdered can take a longer time to take effect but is safer if you're worried about mixing properly.

My Idea:

Apply liquid fertilizer (mixed properly) onto the soil as a foam

Operation:
Put a foaming agent (common unscented liquid soap?), fertilizer in a spray tank and formulate a tip that would generate foam when a pressurized liquid was sent through.

Concept:
The foam would dry and adhere to the soil, and be broken down when it rained/dew/watered etc. It would be delivered to the plant faster than the powdered but would still be somewhat diluted/slow acting as to not burn

I've done research and haven't found a lot of usage of fertilizer foam so let me know your thoughts

Just a few questions:
  • Does standard liquid soap change the PH or anything of the soil?
  • Does anyone see a use for a foam applied fertilizer?
  • Any foreseeable problems?

if it gets decent review (or enough questions or interest) I may attempt to make a small rig and try it.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Edit: I am putting together an article and will post it here when I'm done, please specify if it's alright to put your comments/points/concerns/questions etc into the body of the article. In the page itself I will be giving credit using your member's name from FTT.
 

wazzappenning

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soap breaks the surface tension of the soil allowing moisture in. its a chemical way of aerating, so its good. however im guessing you want a thick foam, and i think you may need a lot of soap to do that. there is also the possibility that the fertilizer may react with the soap causing it not to foam, but who knows. my biggest concern would be that as soon as it rains, and soaks everything in at once, (and possibly washes some away also), you would end up with the same result as just putting it down and hoping the mix is right. also i believe the reason the (powdered) fert is safer is that the granules take a few rains to fully dissolve, so you dont get it all absorbed at once.
 

Michibacy

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Good points, I'm going to throw everything from this discussion into an article and post it here after it's all been done. Do you mind if I put your key points into it?

(this goes for everyone else commenting too)
 

Jitterbugdude

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It sounds like that wheel again, you know, the one that keeps getting reinvented. What you are doing is creating a slow release fertilzer. They already exist as dry fertilzers. Ammonium sulfate and Ammonium Nitrate will break down over several weeks to months. If you want a combination of a quick release Nitrogen fertilizer and a slow release you would just mix some Calcium nitrate (quick release) with Ammonium Nitrate (slow release) Foliar sprays on the other hand are taken up almost immediatley by the plant. Typically you would add a spreader/sticker to the liquid to make it adhere better. There is an entire industry set up to develop, test and sell these. Look for things like RL-37, Yucka extract etc.
 

Michibacy

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Jitter, Gotta keep my brain going, a mind(or body) at rest stays at rest. It's what helps build America...why rebuild what already works? Because we can. Thanks for the suggestions though. Personally, I am a parts and pieces guy. I like to fiddle with things, see how they work, make things work differently. If this doesn't work, I'm just out a few spare parts in the garage.
 

johnlee1933

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You might also want to consider weight. Obviously it would be the weight of water plus fertilizer If you have a liquid deliver system for other needs then just adding a foam nozzle makes some sense. It is my understanding that the fire trucks use plain water and the nozzle adds the foaming agent and air. You would have to dissolve the fertilizer and then foam it. It might make for more precise/metered application. With the cost of fertilizer this might be a plus. If the customer already has a spray irrigation system in place why not add the ferts to that. At this point dry spreading has only the drawback of loss due to dusting.

As to reinventing the wheel. You just might come up with a better wheel.

just thoughts,
John
 

wazzappenning

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i dont mind if you use my comments, but still i think if you want gradual, just add it gradually. say add a 1/4 of your mix after every rain.
 

Michibacy

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foamfert.pngJust a quick explanation: I am not envisioning a spray foam (like your car is covered in at a drive through car wash) I am picturing a "spot spray" type foam. Sorry if I confused any of you. I'm all about cost conservation, I don't see a need in fertilizing the soil where a plant isn't growing.
 

deluxestogie

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Regardless of whether or not the wheels have already invented, you seem to be getting the cart before the horse.

Method sequence:
  • observation
  • hypothesis
  • test
  • compare test results to hypothesis
  • consider writing an article discussing your results.

If you plan to post "an article" on this forum, then standard quote rules apply. Are you hinting at publishing member's forum comments in a different venue?

Bob
 

Michibacy

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I'm not very good at following that guide line. I tend to

-Observe the issue (or decide to notice small things)
-Observe how I can change/fix it
-Hypothesis
-Conceptualize
-Begin writing article
-Build
-Write article


---Too much desk time

The venues would be in said article, I may link to the article on here, my website but don't plan to anywhere else. If you share content, it will just be a properly cited quote. It will be more of a documentary of my process. I don't want to take credit for others thoughts, ideas or concerns. This will be a project not much more than that. Credit IS due to who ever helps with it.
 

Chicken

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i cant tell you the name of the product but ive seen it, in orange grove '' wharehouses'' for thier chemicals,

..they add it to liqiud fertilizer,

.and it's a agent that does basically what your trying to do,
 

SmokeStack

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From my research to formulate a fertilizer for tobacco (and I have been doing a lot of research lately), I learned that there is already a fertilizer for just about any and every purpose. As Jitterbug stated...

It sounds like that wheel again, you know, the one that keeps getting reinvented.

I found this to be the absolute truth. I think you have a good idea and it's great that you have the ambition to carry out your ideas. I'm in the same boat.:)
 

Michibacy

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Thanks Marco! Yes there may be better ways, but I say why not try a different way, and then decide where it places after it's all done, if anything, I've got my very own foam fertilizer.

I've finished putting together a prototype (very basic) I added an atomizer (Teejet DC13) to hopefully atomize the mixture (I will be working on the mixture sometime this weekend). so it enters the nozzle body, hits a 100 mesh screen hopefully* creating a slight foam, maybe a more frothy mixture, it then hits the DC13 atomizer making a hollowed cone inside where it then hits an 80 mesh screen, secretes from there into the drop tube Hopefully as a foam* and then exits in a blob. (Like a foam marker setup).

I will mix some water soluble fertilizer (20/20/20) with a soap (from the reading I have done, regular cheapo dish soap will not kill the microorganisms in the soil, antimicrobial/antibacterial soap may though.) and test this out fairly soon.

I really do appreciate all your guys' comments. I appreciate the criticizing, that's what makes ideas products and even these odd conceptual designs I come up with better.



I will let you know all know how it turns out.
 

SmokeStack

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Yes there may be better ways, but I say why not try a different way, and then decide where it places after it's all done, if anything, I've got my very own foam fertilizer....

I've finished putting together a prototype (very basic) I added an atomizer (Teejet DC13) to hopefully atomize the mixture (I will be working on the mixture sometime this weekend). so it enters the nozzle body, hits a 100 mesh screen hopefully* creating a slight foam, maybe a more frothy mixture, it then hits the DC13 atomizer making a hollowed cone inside where it then hits an 80 mesh screen, secretes from there into the drop tube Hopefully as a foam* and then exits in a blob. (Like a foam marker setup).

Your plan sounds very innovative. It sounds like you really put some effort into it. Let us know how it turns out.

Good Luck!

Marco
 

SmokesAhoy

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all great, groundbreaking (original) ideas were made by people before age 25. or so i heard.

if you are under 25 i say have at it, otherwise have fun :) i'm just having fun these days.
 

johnlee1933

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William Shockley, you may have heard of him. When he was 48 he developed the first transistor at Bell Labs. You may have heard of a transistor. If not, use your computer to look it up. BTW the computer has millions of them in it.

john
 

Michibacy

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Yeah I know what a transistor is. Electrical work is also a hobby of mine. As I see if nobody tried anything we wouldn't be here on FTT.
 
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