How should seeds be distributed?

[FmGrowit]

Offering free seeds to promote membership was largely a flop. There are probably three new regular members from the promotion and about 150 (or more) who never bothered to return to the site once they requested seeds.

There is no sense in giving away seeds to complete strangers, so we need to figure out a new distribution program. My position has always been that I don't own the seeds. The seeds are owned by the members of the forum, but just being a member doesn't really qualify you to receive seeds either. Contributing to the site by way of participation is what should qualify a member for receiving seeds.

This thread is meant to be a brain storming session to try to figure out how seeds are distributed. My initial thoughts are to offer 10 varieties of seeds for sale to the general public.

Regular contributing members should have free reign of the entire seed bank.

What are your thoughts?

What is a "regular contributing member"?

What varieties should be offered for sale?

Who wants to take over the sales and order processing?

 

[Daniel]

Regular contributing members should have free reign of the entire seed bank.

What are your thoughts?
to many to list. I am not sure that using the seed bank as a tool for attraction or promotion is ever giogn to work. I knwo it will never work to a high percentage. You are attracting the very people that are least likely to participate and those that are seeking the easiest least challenging way to grow tobacco. finding this site is not going to change that characteristic. I am also not sure what percentage of participating members you expect to attract. But it will be 10% if it is a very good program in my expectation. The rest wanted sed, got seed and are gone. They got what they wanted and that is all they wanted.

What is a "regular contributing member"?
Someone who visits regularly. I don't include people that post because to many members don't even though they may visit the site every day.

What varieties should be offered for sale?
I can't recommend ten at this time but I do think YTB should be on the list. This needs careful consideration so the selection does a fair job of covering all uses of tobacco. I have only grown 22 varieties. Just from a production stand point the best have been.
MCY, YTB, SIlver River and African Red. Gold Seed Burley did well. For tobacco to do well for me is saying something given I grow it in buckets. I got 34 inch long leaves from my Silver River this year.

Who wants to take over the sales and order processing?
Wish I had the time. I know that is a lot of help. right?

 

[johnlee1933]

Don, That's a tough one. Let me think on it a little, OK? What kind of time and dollars do you guess we are talking about? Obviously spring will be the hectic time.

John

 

[Jitterbugdude]

On a related topic.. It might help Don if, when we send him seeds for the seed bank to do the following: Let's say you have a ton of YTB seed, go out and buy a pack of the little plastic ziplock envelopes, distribute your seed evenly into all the bags, clearly label them as to variety and year grown and then send to Don. Now all he has to do when an order comes in is to grab an already prepared bag of seeds and ship them.

Seedman-Ran

 

[FmGrowit]

I think the seed bank should be just that...a bank and not a distribution center. All the seed bank needs to sustain its inventory is about 4 -5 seed pods. Sending 500,000 seeds only makes storing more difficult. That's why I think we should offer a limited number for sale to the general public and contributing members (serious hobbiests?) should be able to access the full bank.

I'd like to get the collection indexed using 2" x 3 1/2" coin envelopes. The seed bank only needs a few thousand seeds to protect that variety. I also think a copy of the entire collection should be kept at a separate location. This copy collection only needs to have a few hundred seeds of each variety and would only be accessed in the event something were to happen to the primary collection or any part of it.

The backup collection should be stored in optimal conditions (I'm not sure what that is for seeds).

None of the questions I'm asking need to be answered...they're just ideas being thrown out. Please throw your ideas out there too.

 

[leverhead]

If you're going to sell more common seed as part of your business, it's just that, part of your business. A seed bank that represents the combined efforts of it's members to locate and grow out seed that would be of interest to more serious hobbyists would be like this forum.... nowhere else to be found. Small quantities shouldn't be a problem to someone with enough real interest to get them through one or more growing seasons to end up with enough seed to plant out an entire county if that's their wish. The seed bank already exists, in a distributed form, so two centralized collections would make it in triplicate. With GRIN being of little or no interest to this hobby, it's all we have left, except for the perseverance and luck of it's members. I'm glad we have the internet, it's better than a once a month get together at the library, it's like a global club. Amateurs can bring a dedication that professionals don't need to have. I don't have much to contribute, but I wish I did.

 

[jeapadrenaline]

To be honest, when i joined the site, the free seed offer looked good. But i never requested any because i had more than i needed at the time. For a first year grower, the seed offered on ebay are mostly cheap enough anybody should be able to afford it. Then i ended up getting a few more varieties from htgt member skychaser he was good enough to offer some advice and varieties he thought i might like and would do well for me.
So i have 10 varieties growing, some are known specific strains (skychaser seeds) and others are just generic fro ebay. Good enough to get an idea on first grow. If i am lucky enough to havest seed of the known varieries i would like to do as skychaser did and others here have offered ( chicken, barg) and send others some seed they would like.
The seedbank is awesome to have, bur most of us should not have to depend on it. Enough growers here with just about any variety, if we all harvest enough and share amongst each other then the seedbank can be what it should be, a place to preserve species, varities and history. When one does a growout, it is to preserve, extras should be harvested and shared so that for said variety i then can get seed from another member instead of depending on seedbank.
Sorry for being long winded, hope it makes sense.

 

[johnlee1933]

If you're going to sell more common seed as part of your business, it's just that, part of your business. A seed bank that represents the combined efforts of it's members to locate and grow out seed that would be of interest to more serious hobbyists would be like this forum.... nowhere else to be found. Small quantities shouldn't be a problem to someone with enough real interest to get them through one or more growing seasons to end up with enough seed to plant out an entire county if that's their wish. The seed bank already exists, in a distributed form, so two centralized collections would make it in triplicate. With GRIN being of little or no interest to this hobby, it's all we have left, except for the perseverance and luck of it's members. I'm glad we have the internet, it's better than a once a month get together at the library, it's like a global club. Amateurs can bring a dedication that professionals don't need to have. I don't have much to contribute, but I wish I did.

That's a major contribution as it stands. Well said.

John

 

[SmokesAhoy]

What I liked about grin was you knew what you were getting. A lot of the seeds being traded are unplanned f1's. I have enough sloppy seeds (half a gallon) that I'll probably never use but I'm sure will produce a great smoke. These are great for giving to people that don't really get into the enthusiast side of growing and just want to grow "tobacco" like people I work with. This makes it easy to give them enough seed to ensure a crop without trying too hard. Anyone can get a crop if given 10k seeds. We can replicate a line with a few seeds because we are so careful. For people like us I like the idea of a central source that makes available gold standard genetics to even a few members because the next year there will be plenty.
another was to keep the work down for Don is for him to distribute bank seeds only to a few dedicated members for grow outs and an expected etiquette for everyone else to find that person that did the grow, send them an Sase and a baggie for each variety they want in writing. This way all I have to do is respond to a pm with my address, and safely forget about the matter. In a few days I might find an envelope with everything needed to just scoop out my seed into their prelabled bag, put it into their sase and drop it back in the box.

If you want the seed, I'd personally find it not the least bit inconvenient to satisfy the many with this system. The seeker does 9 out of 10 steps and we could make many people happy this way without spending any time or thought on the matter.

it would be a formal decentralized system like the internet almost

 

[johnlee1933]

What I liked about grin was you knew what you were getting. A lot of the seeds being traded are unplanned f1's. I have enough sloppy seeds (half a gallon) that I'll probably never use but I'm sure will produce a great smoke. These are great for giving to people that don't really get into the enthusiast side of growing and just want to grow "tobacco" like people I work with. This makes it easy to give them enough seed to ensure a crop without trying too hard. Anyone can get a crop if given 10k seeds. We can replicate a line with a few seeds because we are so careful. For people like us I like the idea of a central source that makes available gold standard genetics to even a few members because the next year there will be plenty.
another was to keep the work down for Don is for him to distribute bank seeds only to a few dedicated members for grow outs and an expected etiquette for everyone else to find that person that did the grow, send them an Sase and a baggie for each variety they want in writing. This way all I have to do is respond to a pm with my address, and safely forget about the matter. In a few days I might find an envelope with everything needed to just scoop south my seed into their prelabled bag, put it into their sase and drop it back in the box.

If you want the seed, I'd personally find it not the least bit inconvenient to satisfy the many with this system. The seeker does 9 out of 10 steps and we could make many people happy this way without spending any time or thought on the matter.

it would be a formal decentralized system like the internet almost

I like the idea and would be willing to be a part of such a project. This means the "free seed" recipient would have to exert some effort. I would add that if I do it it would be only 100 seeds or so to discourage those looking to resell. As with any project of this type you have to trust the guy giving you the seed. It may not be what the giver thinks it is (honest mistake) or a joke that it'll take you months to discover. To repeat, I agree with the guys that think accurate labeling is important.

John

 

[Jitterbugdude]

For people like us I like the idea of a central source that makes available gold standard genetics

My concern is- How do you validate/verify that there is a gold standard? I bag my plants well before any buds open and I use Organza bags. Do you trust me? if so, there's your gold standard-nice pure seed. I've met plenty of people in my life that will say one thing but do another. I would be worried that Memeber "x" said he bagged his seed but in reality he was too lazy and if he did bag them maybe he bagged them after 50% of the buds were open.

Perhaps just for us memebers the pack of seeds could list the grower's name.

 

[SmokesAhoy]

yeah, 100 seeds would be enough for anyone to grow for themselves and limit reselling.

as to honesty or practical jokery, perhaps if everyone starts a post of their seed stock (like i have done in my sig) then they can post success rates with said strains and there will some rating system similar to what ebay's originally was.

it would also be appreciated that you send seeds with that sase to the person if you have what they are looking for. for instance in my seed collection i have a bunch of varieties and they are all free for the asking, and then i want some things like delgold, if you provide me seeds dont be afraid of asking for too many of the types I have listed

i just think something like this will really decentralize the system. everyone sends don seed for their unique varieties to establish a "bank" and then when you want something check out peoples collections, what you want will probably be there, if not, THEN pester him. i think most of his good will already got used up by the moochers that posted 25 worthless posts then sent him a request 18 times, then there was that one dude holding Don to task for supposedly not receiving them lol.

i dunno, i would like to see this happen, but i can tell you truthfully i personally am not nearly organized or have good enough of a memory to have communications here, then be expected to remember what was going on and who needed what seed when it came time for me to get envelopes, stamps, bags, match requests to seeds to addresses etc. i'd f it up. but if an envelope came in and there was a written request for seeds and little pre labled baggies for me to just fill then pop into the provided envelope and drop in the box i could do this, not once but many times. if i start getting low on stock i would asterisk my supply to denote that it needs to get grown out again before i can fill a request, so maybe the person looks to see who else has the seed or requests a grow out and waits.

 

[SmokesAhoy]

My concern is- How do you validate/verify that there is a gold standard? I bag my plants well before any buds open and I use Organza bags. Do you trust me? if so, there's your gold standard-nice pure seed. I've met plenty of people in my life that will say one thing but do another. I would be worried that Memeber "x" said he bagged his seed but in reality he was too lazy and if he did bag them maybe he bagged them after 50% of the buds were open.

Perhaps just for us memebers the pack of seeds could list the grower's name.

i think Don would have the gold standard seed that was definitely bagged... i.e. there are pictures out there of said bag lol. the rest of us would have to fend for ourselves in finding someone who's grow we trusted if we cared that much. I watch many grows and to give one example of many, if i sent deluxe a request package and i received seed back i wouldn't question that the job had been done correctly. and he's just one of many people that i feel bagged for sure. other people, myself included live far from any reasonable grow site, and bagged anyway. I also have unbagged seed that i am reasonably sure is pure. if i run out of the bagged (i cant imagine this happening though lol) then if you couldnt find it anywhere else still you might request the unbagged. with a single crows foot putting out about a pint of seed each grower that bags only 1 plant should be able to supply everyone.

Also for gold standard many of us have the big packs originally sent from the grin. half the pack sent to don notated that it is original grin stock could serve 2 purposes: 1 it is gold standard, and 2, it probably needs a grow out soon.

 

[SmokesAhoy]

if this idea takes off can we get a Members Seed Collection subforum? Right now mine is in the introductory forum.

 

[Steve2md]

I like the "Member's seed collections" forum idea. Then the members would be able to use their discretion as to whom they gave their seed to.

 

[leverhead]

if this idea takes off can we get a Members Seed Collection subforum? Right now mine is in the introductory forum.

There's not allot of bickering here to start with, but if you had to deal with a more distributed system, it would keep the transients away. A new member might get a little sympathy, but they would have to be at least polite.

 

[deluxestogie]

My cup runneth over, at the moment. The database that I've designed (and the website that is partially complete) will track individual seed batches by individual holders, and be capable of generating an email request to the collection holder when a registered user is in need of seed. Each seed batch can be individually made available for distribution, or flagged as not available. Hopefully, late in the fall, it will be up and running.

Some single site (with a duplicate) must hold clearly identifiable pure-strain seed. Otherwise, we will lose all but the "popular" varieties. There are already several on-line sources of excellent seed for those popular varieties. At $2 to $4 per pack, it's nearly free from those commercial sites (e.g. New Hope Seed), when compared to the price of power shredders and power injectors.

I will not send seed in a non-padded envelope. I've received seed crushed by postal machines. Bummer.

In comparing the storage requirements of 100 seeds vs. 10,000 seeds, the container itself is all that takes up space. In the past, I've sent tablespoon quantities of seed to the seed bank in small plastic jars. In the future, I will send 1 gram quantities (7000 to 10,000 seeds), enclosed in a tiny Zip Lock, within a paper 2-1/2" x 4-1/2" envelope.

I volunteer to maintain the second (duplicate) seed bank site, in addition to maintaining the seed bank website. I will store the seed between 35-40ºF, within several layers of vapor barrier containers. It won't require more than a large size 3" x 5" plastic card file, held within protective layers. The grow-outs of seed bank seed should be scheduled (by the software) so that each of the two seed bank sites grows-out at least 10% of its holdings each year. So, with two sites, 20% of the varieties will need grow-outs each year. That should come to fewer than 40 varieties per year--a manageable number for a forum with the present active membership.

Bob

 

[Steve2md]

@ 10% per site (assuming different varieties for grow out at the same time) that would be a 5 year turnover rate for seeds. Is that a reasonable amount of time to store seeds? I'm just curious about the shelf life of the seeds in an ideal environment.

 

[Chicken]

i think certain cigar varities,,, should have a price tag on the seeds,

some of the cigar varities ive seen members grow, are, im sure very unique strains,

and im glad the '' shipping'' of the seeds was mentioned,

the postal service mechanical devices for moving mail, will crush a seed, no matter if it's as big as a orange seed,

so caution and common sense has to be applied when shipping seed,

 

[deluxestogie]

@ 10% per site (assuming different varieties for grow out at the same time) that would be a 5 year turnover rate for seeds. Is that a reasonable amount of time to store seeds? I'm just curious about the shelf life of the seeds in an ideal environment.

Before ARS-GRIN turned into a pumpkin, their refresh rate was 10% of the collection per year. Well kept, tobacco seed is viable for 10+ years.

Bob