Fermentation: Will this work?

[Hakamo0o]

Hi again,

I am hanging some leaves after they have turned yellow to be air-cured. I improvised a makeshift curing chamber since the temperature and humidity here swings allot.
I strung the leaves on a cotton string and covered it with a plastic bag, the bag is then hanged above a pot filled with water (no heaters) and put in the shade. I punctured the bag to let some of the moist air out (circulation).

Currently the ambient temperature swings between 70-110 F and RH between 30-99% (through the day). In the next two months the temprature will be 80-110F and RH 50-99% . Hot and humid

I was wondering if after they are cured and turned brown (they are halfway now) would it be useful to leave them hanging until next winter as a mean of fermenting or this would be useless?

Thanks

Hakamo0o

PS. Pictures will be up tomorrow (it is dark now)

 

[deluxestogie]

Hakam,
Make sure the leaf has the opportunity to lose some moisture, while it slowly goes through the yellow-to-brown stage. The temperatures and humidity swings are perfect for fermentation. Your greatest risk is if the humidity stays at 80% or higher for several days straight, which can lead to mold. If the enclosure you designed allows the humidity to slowly move toward your ambient humidity (lag measured in hours), then the daily cycling will be ideal. That would allow the leaf to naturally ferment over a period of several months. You may not need the water pot for humidity, once the leaf is brown.

Bob

 

[Hakamo0o]

As promised....the pictures

String through the bag


Vent hole


First bag


Second bag

 

[Hakamo0o]

Hakam,
Make sure the leaf has the opportunity to lose some moisture, while it slowly goes through the yellow-to-brown stage. The temperatures and humidity swings are perfect for fermentation. Your greatest risk is if the humidity stays at 80% or higher for several days straight, which can lead to mold. If the enclosure you designed allows the humidity to slowly move toward your ambient humidity (lag measured in hours), then the daily cycling will be ideal. That would allow the leaf to naturally ferment over a period of several months. You may not need the water pot for humidity, once the leaf is brown.

Bob

Thanks Bob, helpful as always.
Up till now there is mold, I check every two/three days. The water pot is there to maintain the pliability of the leaf since at noon it becomes very hot and the leaves become crispy and I fear that some air might crack them, also the updraft from the pot will encourage the vertical circulation of "in-bag" air.

Hakamo0o

 

[FmGrowit]

Your leaves look very nicely color cured. Plastic bags wouldn't be my first choice, but if you keep an eye on them, you should be fine. I'm not sure how much fermenting you're going to accomplish though. My understanding of fermentation is a consistent moisture and heat level for a length of time. If the leaf goes in and out of case, I think it would be more of an aging process. Regardless of the length of time leaf is aged, I don't think it would ever be considered fermented.

Being primarily a cigarette smoker, I've never seen a use for a kiln or curing chamber. Now that I'm learning more about cigar leaf, I'm convinced a kiln is essential for small scale cigar leaf production. It appears that nearly all tobacco is improved by fermenting.

 

[Hakamo0o]

When using the Crock-Pot assembly; the humidity is high and the temperature is also high, who don't the leaves get moldy?

 

[Jitterbugdude]

The leaves will get moldy when the humidity is above 70%, not sure exactly when but I would'nt let the humidity get above 70%. Other factors also come in to play such as lack of air circulation and how tightly the tobacco is packed.

 

[DrBob]

I have cured off well over 150# of tobacco using the crockpot for heat and humidity. I have only used a modified upright freezer as a curing chamber. The freezer is well insulated and works well for a curing chamber. The touchy thing about curing with this method is keeping the temperatures between 120 and 130 degrees f. Temperatures below 115 promote mold, above 120 mold is less of an issue. Temperatures above140 stop the enzyme action. A thermostat is necessary to keep the temperatures in that range. 125 has proven to be ideal. The humidity level should be high enough for the leaves to be limp but not wet.
I have only cured cigarette tobacco virginia and burley mostly. As far as cigar wrapper tobacco goes I have no experience with that.

Dr.Bob

 

[deluxestogie]

With regard to humidity, I run my baby kiln at a humidity target of 75% (~122 to 128ºF), and don't become concerned if it sneaks up to 80% for half a day or less. It tends to stabilize near 75%, because I have started including a container of rock salt within the kiln. As the Crockpot raises the humidity above 75%, the salt absorbs the excess water, even to the extent of the salt becoming a solution. When the Crockpot runs dry, the salt slowly releases its water. When my hygrometer consistently reads below 74%, then I know it's time to add more water to the Crockpot (usually every 3 or 4 days). Operating within this humidity range has not resulted in mold on the tobacco. One inside corner of the wooden kiln box--the coolest corner--sometimes exhibits some mildew, which I simply spray with dilute vinegar.

So I agree with Dr.Bob, that at 120 to 130ºF, mold is not a problem, so long as the relative humidity--in my kiln setup--stays below 80%. At room temperature (~70ºF), I store tobacco below 65% RH.

Bob

 

[SmokesAhoy]

that salt is a good idea