Curing, Kilning, Fermenting. Confusing

[andrewislord]

I'm trying to get an understanding of the whole curing process. But I'm getting confused. I understand what color curing is. Turning green leaf brown. From there I get confused.

What's the difference between kilning and fermenting. And what is sweating? Also, I thought you color cured it and then put it in to a kiln or flue-cure it, but I'm reading of people putting yellow leaf into kilns.

I'm thinking of building a small kiln. I swore I wasn't going to do it but I guess I am.

I had a bunch more questions but can't think of them at the moment.

I know my questions have probably been answered already, but the more I search the more confused I get.

 

[johnlee1933]

Andrew, Type "fermenting" in the search box. Then click on Fermenting. Then select and read the "Fermenting in a vaporproof bag" thread. I believe it will answer most of your questions.

Hope this helps, John

 

[DonH]

Here's the way I understand it. Color curing is turning the leaves from green to yellow. Curing is drying them (to brown). Fermenting is a misnomer (since it's not really fermenting unless you're making Perique. Kilning is a way to sweat leaves to finish the chemical transformations you want so it tastes better. For cigar productiohandaves or hands (I think) are stacked so that temps are raised in the middle of the stack to the 125 F level to accomplish that. For the home grower with fewer leaves it's easier to kiln. Or you could skip kilning and let them hang for a year.

 

[johnlee1933]

Here's the way I understand it. Color curing is turning the leaves from green to yellow. Curing is drying them (to brown). Fermenting is a misnomer (since it's not really fermenting unless you're making Perique. Kilning is a way to sweat leaves to finish the chemical transformations you want so it tastes better. For cigar productiohandaves or hands (I think) are stacked so that temps are raised in the middle of the stack to the 125 F level to accomplish that. For the home grower with fewer leaves it's easier to kiln. Or you could skip kilning and let them hang for a year.

That's a simple, direct answer and is basically how I understand the process.

Well Done!

John

 

[andrewislord]

Thanks.
I was reading the "Fermenting in a vapor-proof bag" thread and that's why I was getting confused. Because I didn't know what fermenting was. They use a lot of words I don't understand in that thread. I can't really understand what they're talking about when I don't understand the differences. I think I'm getting it though.

So, kilning speeds up the aging and fermenting is just something you do later to make it taste better? In a simple way, I mean.

Can you put brown leaf in a kiln, or would that not be curing? Or would that be fermenting?

I was thinking I'd let everything turn brown and hang for a while until I have some more time and can build and research the hell out of kilns. Now I may be speeding that up a bit. Maybe I should just keep putting it off, and it will have aged by the time I get to it.

 

[johnlee1933]

Thanks.


So, kilning speeds up the aging and fermenting is just something you do later to make it taste better? In a simple way, I mean.

Can you put brown leaf in a kiln, or would that not be curing? Or would that be fermenting?

Not quite. Fermenting is a PART of the curing process. As I understand it fermenting is a process that goes on naturally, at differing rates, in curing tobacco. It has little resemblance to fermenting as in wine OR beer. If the tobacco just hangs in a barn and experiences changing temps and humidity the process is slow (1 to several years). If you heat the tobacco up, BUT NOT TOO HOT, the process is faster. In large producers this is accomplished by making large piles/bales of leaves and permitting natural processes to heat the center of the pile (like composting) to speed the process. The pile is rearranged regularly so all the leaves see the same conditions over time and don't over heat. Kilning is a way for the small grower to get the increased temps (and humidity) to do the same thing with small lots of leaves.

Hey G​uys, If I got this wrong now's the time to jump in and kick my butt.

John

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Johnlee has it right. Kilning is fermenting and so is making Perique, Fermenting (as in using a kiln) is aerobic and making Perique is Anaerobic .Typically, the lingo is: curing= changing the leave from green to brown and Fermenting= Accelerating the aging process at a high heat and humidity. Sweating is basically the same as fermenting but it is done at the ambient temperature of the barn ( 60-90 degrees F, give or take 10 degrees)

 

[andrewislord]

Thanks.
That's very helpful. This will make further research much easier to take in.

 

[Chicken]

i prefer to let my leaf brown before putting it in the kiln,

AND YOU should build yourself a kiln, i bet you have something that can be used for a kiln laying around the yard, or a friends yard,

deluxestogie built one out of a metal trash can,

i believe all homegrown baccy growers should have a kiln of some sort's,

>> i would have lost my ENTIRE crop if i didnt have a kiln big enough for what i grew,

because around july, to 2 weeks ago, here in florida it rained more days than i recall and ive lived here all my life,

i had mildew issues very bad, and the rain wasnt stopping, '' i threw it all in my kiln, and allthough i may have tossed, 3 lbs. worth, i did save the mast majority of it,

a kiln can be as simp[le as a single 100 watt light bulb, to what i use 2......250 watt heat lamps,

 

[andrewislord]

I think I'm going to. There is no shortage of ideas here.

I was thinking I would use a tent with heat bulbs and a crock pot. But after looking at others I think that would be way too big for my measly 6 plants. Also, I really can't be using much more electricity so something like that trash can would work.

I was thinking of something simple to try. Like a black bucket with some water on the bottom and the tobacco on an upside down colander or something, and a lid. And keep it in the sun. It's still in the 90's here, but I would have to hurry up.

I'll probably come up with something today. My woman is pissed and I'm on the couch. I always get my best research done at times like these.

 

[DonH]

The problem I see with the tent idea is insulation. You'll waste a lot of energy trying to keep it at 125F.

I think I'm going to build mine out of rigid board insulation.

 

[andrewislord]

I don't know very much about insulation.
It's a 4x4 grow tent, probably about 6 feet high. It's lined with mylar and black. I'm not using it because when I grew in it, it got way too hot and I usually ended up with mold. I was going to cover it with a big moving blanket though. But I don't think I'll be using that tent anyway.

I may try something today with black bucket thing, but I don't have a lid and can't get anywhere to get one today. Maybe I'll just try it upside down sitting on bowl of heated water or something. And then cover it with blankets.

The problem would be keeping track of the temperatures and humidity. For now, as a quick throw something together thing, all I have is a $10 temperature/hygrometer from Home Depot. I would lose the heat and humidity trying to check it.

But I got a lot of reading to do today, and there is a lot of ideas here. So I'll probably come up with something.

 

[Chicken]

i believe the small ammount you have that '' tent'' may work perfect,

remember the heat in there, this time is what you want,

 

[SmokesAhoy]

That black bucket might address the issues we had sweating in a black bag. High case leaf in the bucket with an airtight seal on the top