Reducing TSNAs in homegrown tobacco?

[Michibacy]

The main reason behind my growing of tobacco was to findhealthier tobacco compared to commercial processed tobacco. I dont use it enough to worry about the cost too much.
.
I've read that the most common cancer causing agent is tobacco specific nitrosamines ( TSNAs) .

In an article posted by University of VA they have a graph that shows shed/air cured comparisons of TSNA levels. Air cured contains less and more so if it isn't misted.

-how do we reduce levels
-how do we measure them
-what are they exactly

Michibacy

 

[Frozenthunderbolt]

production of nitrosamines in cured meats can be reduced/prevented by the inclusion of ascorbic acid - vitamin C. Not sure for smokes though!

 

[Michibacy]

I've done some more reading, apparently there is another chart that shows "No Misting, Misting with water, Misting with Ascorbic Acid" No misting is the lowest amount, followed by misting with ascorbic acid and misting with water coming in last, with the highest amount of TSNAs. ---Good Catch Frozenthunderbolt, it appears Ascorbic Acid is our key.

I'm wondering if temperature/humidity activate the nitrosamine production.

If we could A) find an easy at home way of calculating TSNAs content and B) find a way of applying A-acid in the curing shed I think it would be beneficial to us home growers.

Where to find A-Acid
Vitamin C (AKA Ascorbic Acid) is in many citrus fruits. I am aware that you can buy Vitamin C supplements in your local store but am pretty sure it's NOT a 100mg pill of 99.99% pure Vitamin C. So I think we should either look for power form (A-acid is easily broken down in water) or find a way of implementing actual fruit juice (probably fresher the better) into any misting we do in the sheds (if at all possible) while at the same time restricting the amount of mold growth and flavor change from the juice.

A problem I can see in locating a powder form is the fact that Heroin users use A-acid to make heroin a water soluble salt so that it can be injected (found through Wikipedia, link to their reference here)

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Vitamin C taken internally will prevent the formation of nitrates. Pure powder can readily be obtained from places such as Iherb etc. Some of the many brands to buy are "NOW" or "NutriBiotic" brands. The most common form to buy is Sodium Ascorbate. It is non acidic and easy on the stomach. The sodium does not raise blood pressure.Everyone that smokes should consider a few grams per day.

http://www.iherb.com/NutriBiotic-Sodium-Ascorbate-Crystalline-Powder-16-oz-454-g/10178

 

[DonH]

Vitamin C taken internally will prevent the formation of nitrates. Pure powder can readily be obtained from places such as Iherb etc. Some of the many brands to buy are "NOW" or "NutriBiotic" brands. The most common form to buy is Sodium Ascorbate. It is non acidic and easy on the stomach. The sodium does not raise blood pressure.Everyone that smokes should consider a few grams per day.

http://www.iherb.com/NutriBiotic-Sodium-Ascorbate-Crystalline-Powder-16-oz-454-g/10178

Great information, JBD. I've been taking 8 grams a day for a while now.

 

[Ishi]

another place to get Vitamin C
http://www.msm-msm.com/store/agora....scorbic Acid&gclid=CJCj0_i09JgCFShRagodgh-C1Q
another one

http://www.evitamins.com/ascorbic-acid-now-34018

 

[Jitterbugdude]

"NOW" is a good brand. They sell pharmaceutical grade. It is worth buying from them or Nutribiotic( also pharmaceutical grade). I know a lot of people will go to the big box store and buy their Vitamin "C" for much less. The problem is- that stuff is usually only 97% pure. So if you take just 2 grams a day you are getting 600 mg of something else and considering it probably came from China you are probably injesting 600 mg of lead.

 

[Michibacy]

I've done more research, and apparently there isn't a standardized way of measuring TSNAs. Many different methods but not everyone agrees upon how to do it.

I guess as a precaution it'd be good to practice. As long as it wouldn't affect the burnability of the leaf.

Anyone willing to try it? Maybe some of the folks across the ocean that are just getting ready to harvest?

 

[leverhead]

I need to dig up the sources again, but good air flow through the tobacco during curing reduces TSNA formation.

 

[SmokeStack]

I need to dig up the sources again, but good air flow through the tobacco during curing reduces TSNA formation.

I know that increasing the oxygen level around the tobacco when flue-curing significantly lowers the formation of TSNAs. In fact, there is a patent on this process that was issued not too long ago. There is even a lawsuit by the company (Star Scientific) who invented the oxygen rich flue-curing process against one of the large tobacco companies (R.J. Reynolds). I am not sure how an oxygen rich environment would prohibit the formation of TSNAs, but I speculate that oxygen favors aerobic processes over anaerobic processes. (I am guessing that the formation of TSNAs is a result of anaerobic processes.) Or maybe oxygen mediates a process altogether different - I really don't know. But I do believe that Star Scientific's work represents a hallmark discovery for us smokers - imagine smoking a cigarette that contains no TSNAs!

Read the following http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/STSI.O/key-developments/article/2390963

 

[leverhead]

Thank you SmokeStack! Now I don't have to go digging. Now I remember who I was having the conversation with. I can remember all the way back to the time when I had a short term memory.

 

[deluxestogie]

I would imagine that at the high flue-curing temperatures there are neither aerobic nor anaerobic metabolic processes occurring. I assume that it is purely a matter of chemical equilibrium being shifted.

Bob

 

[leverhead]

Unless it happened before the temperature got beyond killing temperature.

 

[SmokeStack]

I am trying to figure out why the formation TSNAs is drastically reduced by the presence of oxygen during the curing process. From a chemist's point of view, N'-nitrosamines are formed by the reaction of the nitrosonium ion with an amine. It is the presence of the nitrosonium ion that procures the synthesis of TSNAs. Here is a synthetic pathway for the reaction of nornicotine:



If the flue-curing temperatures deactivate enzyme catalysis, then there must be an alternative pathway. In an oxygen rich environment and at elevated temperatures, it may be possible that the nitrite is converted to nitrate, thereby by-passing the formation of the nitrosonium ion. This statement is just a stab in the dark - I need to do more research. I have yet to learn more about this new flue-curing process. If tobacco can be produced without TSNAs, it would be revolutionize the tobacco industry, tobacco laws, taxes, etc!!!

To be continue...

 

[Michibacy]

...I was going to be all smart and look up the reason why. I got it all wrote out, found a good image to post, came here to post it and realized you already did. Nice work Smokestack. My nerdiness is going crazy!

On a non-funny note, I wonder if pumping in oxygen of sorts into a chamber would then offset the TSNA levels?

 

[SmokeStack]

On a non-funny note, I wonder if pumping in oxygen of sorts into a chamber would then offset the TSNA levels?

I was thinking the same thing. But if some lights up a smoke near the curing chamber, it would be like the fourth of July. Pure oxygen can form some very nasty explosions. But I am sure that a setup could be arranged with safety precautions in place. I was thinking that pure oxygen would inhibit the formation of most of the TSNAs or at least to an acceptable limit (which is very low for N-nitrosamines).

Actually, an idea just popped into my head. We could try using pure oxygen on a small scale. I have access to a Gas Chromatograph Mass Spectrometer. It is an instrument that can be used to detect even trace amounts of substances. But before venturing off to run a bunch of experiments, I would still need to do some research and see if we are not duplicating something that has not already been done. It would make for a cool research project. It would not be too difficult to apply for a grant since it is something "medically related" - that is producing cigarettes that have no TSNAs.

One more thing remains, even though all of the TSNAs have been eliminated, there are still other carcinogens in tobacco smoke as a result of the combustion process. It seems like any time you burn an organic substance, you generate carcinogens. BBQ steak is an example. The charred portions contain benzo[a]pyrene.

Well I got my day's nerdiness out. It's time to grab a smoke.

 

[Michibacy]

Amen Smokes. If it hasn't been researched before, I'd be glad to lend a hand in the process if time permits it. I would imagine a solenoid on a timer with an O2 tank attached would work in applying the O2, maybe a vent near the bottom of the chamber, vent holes etc to allow air flow but enough C02 to inhibit a pocket forming thus risking explosion. Kind of like a breathers mask for diving. It's regulated for safety; safety of breathing/fire and safety of the product.

 

[johnlee1933]

Amen Smokes. If it hasn't been researched before, I'd be glad to lend a hand in the process if time permits it. I would imagine a solenoid on a timer with an O2 tank attached would work in applying the O2, maybe a vent near the bottom of the chamber, vent holes etc to allow air flow but enough C02 to inhibit a pocket forming thus risking explosion. Kind of like a breathers mask for diving. It's regulated for safety; safety of breathing/fire and safety of the product.

I'd be really careful dealing with pure Oxygen. While it is perfectly safe to breathe at atmospheric pressure it is very tricky in terms of fire. You may remember the fire in a space module during test that killed Gus Grissom and two others. I dealt with caustic and explosive/flamable gasses professionally for years. While Oxygen is NOT flammable it (and Chlorine) are what make make other things burn. Steel wool won't burn in air but burns like crazy in Oxygen. A cigar soaked in liquid O2 burns like a road fusee. If you choose to raise Oxygen levels may I suggest you do it with oxygen rich mixtures? At the very least, pre mix the Oxygen with air before using it. Simple venturi mixers work quite well at normal pressures. This is a long winded "Watch your Ass Man". -- John

 

[Boboro]

I like to wacth ppl. with oxygen masks when they smokein.

 

[SmokeStack]

Amen Smokes. If it hasn't been researched before, I'd be glad to lend a hand in the process if time permits it. I would imagine a solenoid on a timer with an O2 tank attached would work in applying the O2, maybe a vent near the bottom of the chamber, vent holes etc to allow air flow but enough C02 to inhibit a pocket forming thus risking explosion. Kind of like a breathers mask for diving. It's regulated for safety; safety of breathing/fire and safety of the product.

Yes, pure oxygen can form explosive mixtures with many materials. In my lab I use liquid nitrogen traps for the vacuum pumps in my fume hood. The traps must be emptied when you go home for the day or else atmospheric oxygen will condense to a liquid and form an explosive mixture with any residual solvents. I learned that the hard way.


This experiment sounds interesting but it is actually quite involved. We are ultimately trying to find a relationship between the quantity of TSNAs produced in flue-cured tobacco as a function of oxygen concentration. First we would have to flue-cure tobacco in an atmosphere of a 100% nitrogen (N2) and 0% oxygen (O2) and then measure the levels of TSNAs in the tobacco. Then we increase the concentration of O2 to create an atmosphere of 90% N2 and 10% O2 and measure the TSNAs levels of the tobacco. We would repeat this until we arrive at an atmosphere of 100% O2 and 0% N2. From this data, we will hopefully see a correlation between O2 concentration and TSNAs levels. As you can see, there is a lot of work to be done and much time to put in. Also, it is not nearly as simple as it sounds. But as I mentioned before, we need to see what research has been done already. No point in reinventing the wheel. Star Scientific has a patent already for a similar curing process. I will have to read up on it and get back to you. If we get any new ideas, Jeremy, are you interested in building a small scale flue-curing pilot plant? It would be like killing two birds with one stone, and if the project fails, we would at least have a means of flue-curing our homegrown tobacco.