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Leaf Sizes

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istanbulin

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I think, most of the home growers really wondering about the real sizes of Turkish or oriental tobacco leaves. I found an image which compares the size of some tobacco leaves.

In this image, leaf shapes are not very accurate, they draw the dried (or cured) leaf shapes. But the comparison with a VA leaf may help concerned growers.

I also have some other drawings but I must found and resize them first, to provide accurate leaf sizes here.


comp.JPG
 

darren1979

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I grew samsun last year and the leaf size was probably 3 times the size of that image. Im growing it again this year and may have to choose my spacing more wisely and not put it in rich soil. On avarage how tall do samsun grow istanbulin? If i remember correctly mine topped out around 5ft
 

istanbulin

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I grew samsun last year and the leaf size was probably 3 times the size of that image. Im growing it again this year and may have to choose my spacing more wisely and not put it in rich soil. On avarage how tall do samsun grow istanbulin? If i remember correctly mine topped out around 5ft

There's not a length limit for the plants, but 4 ft is a normal length. The point is catching the desired leaf size. If your leaves are proper sized, a tall plant is not a very big problem.

EDIT: BTW, the image above is not representing the actual leaf sizes. It's only a comparison.
 

darren1979

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EDIT: BTW, the image above is not representing the actual leaf sizes. It's only a comparison.

Depends what size screen your veiwing it on :)

Do you think the flavour is improved with a smaller sized leaf? I guess i was going for quantity not quality.
 

Chicken

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quality doesnt come in quantity,

ive found i like my turkish for blending,

but it take many plants to ammount to a lot of bacca.
 

istanbulin

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Here's another comparison, I just took this photo.


Untitled.jpg


Biggest leaf is Larry's VA309 (26"). Others are respectively; Bucak (14"), Canik (2nd ana) (6"), Canik (uçaltı) (4") and Canik (uç) (3").
 

Knucklehead

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It's still hard to calculate how many plants of Turkish a man would need for a 10-15% blend with Burley and Virginia.
 

BarG

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I averaged about a 1/4 lb of cured leaf from my ottoman and bursa plants. The leaves averaged about 10"-12" long and 6-8" wide on the upper 2/3rds of plant which grew around 4-6'. I like both varietys straight and about an even mix with flue cured and burly.
 

Knucklehead

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BarG - What was your plant and row spacing on your ottoman and bursa? I'm going to plant mine Turkish style about a foot apart and was wondering if my leaves will be smaller than yours.

Your Bursa was awesome in a pipe. I also fell in love with JBD's BSS-Maden straight up in a pipe. I'm going to do Izmir for cigarettes. Those are my three Turkish varieties.
 

BarG

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BarG - What was your plant and row spacing on your ottoman and bursa? I'm going to plant mine Turkish style about a foot apart and was wondering if my leaves will be smaller than yours.

Your Bursa was awesome in a pipe. I also fell in love with JBD's BSS-Maden straight up in a pipe. I'm going to do Izmir for cigarettes. Those are my three Turkish varieties.

I'm growing some of JBD's BSS-maden also. I had them at 24" last year but will change to 20" this yr. I had plenty of space between plants. I will maintain 3' row space for ease of maintenance between rows on oriental and increase for some other varietys for the same reason.
 

istanbulin

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BarG - What was your plant and row spacing on your ottoman and bursa? I'm going to plant mine Turkish style about a foot apart and was wondering if my leaves will be smaller than yours.

Your Bursa was awesome in a pipe. I also fell in love with JBD's BSS-Maden straight up in a pipe. I'm going to do Izmir for cigarettes. Those are my three Turkish varieties.

IMO, if your leaves will be smaller you should proud of this :) I tried JBD's Maden (unkilned) too, they're really good except their strenght. 1 foot apart is a good idea for Maden (in a non-row system). BTW, straight Maden is also very good in cigarettes, try and see. This year I'll grow houndreds of them.
 

BarG

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I'm new to growing tobacco so what is the advantage of a smaller leaf in the oriental? My lugs were relativly low in nicotene it seemed but the mid to upper seemed just right. I also read in one of your posts where you recommended kilning oriental for 8 days only. I may revise my plant spacing down to 18" but maintain my row center of 3' on my bursa and ottoman, and do a comparison row with the 12" spacing with some of the seedlings I will trade with Leverhead.
 

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I grew Ottoman and Samsun on 18" centers in a triple row last year. I'm going to keep the 18" centers for Ottoman and Bursa this year, but the Samsun is going down to 12" centers. The other varieties will be similar to the Samsun. The plants I can walk over will not have a foot path between them. The others will be rows narrow enough that I can reach into the middle from both sides.
 

istanbulin

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I'm new to growing tobacco so what is the advantage of a smaller leaf in the oriental? My lugs were relativly low in nicotene it seemed but the mid to upper seemed just right. I also read in one of your posts where you recommended kilning oriental for 8 days only. I may revise my plant spacing down to 18" but maintain my row center of 3' on my bursa and ottoman, and do a comparison row with the 12" spacing with some of the seedlings I will trade with Leverhead.

Smallar leaf is the nature of the Oriental tobaccos. For example, obtaining a 20" leaf from a Oriental tobacco is nearly impossible. Large leaves mean that the plant got too much nutritients from soil (generally beacuse of irrigation or excess amount of rains with or without fertilization) so they'll be stronger in nicotine and harsher (e.g. excess amount of N and etc.). Also for some varieties (e.g. İzmir), water shortage cause formation of resins on the adaxial surface of the leaf (to prevent leaf from water loss). This resinous compounds add pleasant taste too. 8-10 days of kilning is for properly growed Oriental varieties (for achieving better taste), this process may be longer (or shorter) for yours, generally unkilned Oriental tobaccos also taste good (e.g. JBD's Maden).
 

BarG

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Smallar leaf is the nature of the Oriental tobaccos. For example, obtaining a 20" leaf from a Oriental tobacco is nearly impossible. Large leaves mean that the plant got too much nutritients from soil (generally beacuse of irrigation or excess amount of rains with or without fertilization) so they'll be stronger in nicotine and harsher (e.g. excess amount of N and etc.). Also for some varieties (e.g. İzmir), water shortage cause formation of resins on the adaxial surface of the leaf (to prevent leaf from water loss). This resinous compounds add pleasant taste too. 8-10 days of kilning is for properly growed Oriental varieties (for achieving better taste), this process may be longer (or shorter) for yours, generally unkilned Oriental tobaccos also taste good (e.g. JBD's Maden).

Thanks istanbulin. This information and previous posts will help with planning of my oriental crop this year.

When topping do you remove just the bud or the smallest leaves around the buds also?
 

istanbulin

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Thanks istanbulin. This information and previous posts will help with planning of my oriental crop this year.

When topping do you remove just the bud or the smallest leaves around the buds also?

Generally most of the Oriental varieties should remain untopped (especially highly aromatic varieties). I don't know the variety "Ottoman" (it's not cultivated here, may be a hobbyist created it in the US (?)) but Bursa is not a very aromatic tobacco so you may top it by removing the only the bud (for using the upper leaves). I'll grow Bursa too this year, I'm not planning to top all of them but I may try topping on 1-2 plants for a comparison.
 

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Somewhere Fm said he thought the Ottoman was a semi oriental that had been crossed with a Burley
 

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I'm gonna grow my xanthi in a separate plot real close together with horse manure tilled in(no goat manure available) to try to get it as close as I can to the real thing. Will stalk harvest though as I don't see myself messing around with leaves smaller than the trees are dropping.
 

istanbulin

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...

When topping do you remove just the bud or the smallest leaves around the buds also?

I just learn the exact meaning of this term "pruning" (may be somebody already know it).

In pruning the bud (and may be the very little leaves around it) is removed. In topping 2 to 3 (or more) top leaves removed with the bud.
 
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