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Cigar problems

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Seanz

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Hey people, I scored on of those awesome cigar samplers from Whole leaf and have been attempting to get something smokable. They have been on a scale of improvement from the first one that was as tight as the proverbial nun, to loose as a goose, finally yesterday I managed to roll something passable still a bit loose and lumpy. But, they come unrolled about halfway down.
Any help would be appreciated as I cant see where I am going wrong.
 

johnlee1933

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I am right handed so I roll away from me from right to left. This means the right hand end of the cigar is bound by the successive layers. So, in this scenario you would put the left end in your mouth and light the right end. Your mouth (and a little glue) hold the leaf in place on that end and the binding overlap secures the business end. Don't feel bad. We've all had an "unroller".
 

deluxestogie

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The head of the cigar (the part that goes into your mouth) is the end on which the wrapper finishes wrapping. It took me about 30 cigars to roll reliably smokable stogies. One of the mysteries is that (with the underside of the whole wrapper leaf facing upward, the tip toward you, and the leaf base away from you) the left half of the wrapper leaf rolls from left to right (rolling away from you); the right half rolls from right to left.

To use the same leaf for binder and wrapper, pick the nicest half as the wrapper (smooth surface down), then flip the other half for the binder (smooth surface up). This results in the binder going on with the rough side showing, but it is covered by the smooth binder. All veins will be parallel to the axis of the cigar.

Bob
 

webmost

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I have a couple of points here which might be instructive. Like yourself, I am a beginner roller.

1) My first batch was a rank failure rolled from tobacco bought at another site. I rolled them way way too tight. I believe upon reflection that I wetted the leaves too much, so that as they dried they shrank. My second batch was from the same Whole Leaf sampler. This leaf is of MUCH higher quality, far tastier, better conditioned. These cigars were a pretty fair success and smoke well. I am seasoning them now. In this case, I was wary of making them toot tight, so i did not wet them hardly at all. They came out a bit loose. But as they season, they do appear to be firming up some. So my first suggestion would be, let the filler be, dampen the binder, wet the wrapper, then let them rest.

2) At first, I was inclined to just bunch the filler together. To start the second batch, I bunched them together but end-for-ended them to make my cylinders more consistent. Toward the end, I discovered how to accordion the leaves. That right there was a milestone. Just fold each leaf back and forth zigzag as you bunch it up. Works wonder.

3) Feel free to throw leaf away. Not just the stems; but the funky bunched parts. Lay whole long leaves together all accordioned, then tear away the ends to length. You get a much straighter and more cylindrical shape if you throw your funky bits away.

4) Don sent me twice as much wrapper as I needed. This is becuase virtually every bezuke leaf he sent had two perfect sides to it. Like deluxe above, I used one half for binder and the other half for wrapper. If I were to do it again using the sampler, I would definitely use both sides of one leaf for the binder and one side of the next leaf for a wrapper. That's right -- double bind the thing. This bezuke is so delicate that I think two layers, rolled at the same time, not one after another, would make it easier to hold the bunch firm and cylindrical. Don't worry -- you should have plenty. I received two bundles of bezuke. I rolled consistent robustos about 5 1/2" x 50 gauge and yet I had almost a whole bundle left.

5) If your head is giving you trouble coming apart, try either of these ways:

a) When your wrapper approaches the head, smear your pectin on the remnaider pretty thoroughly, then wrap on up, then twist the end into a wet pigtail. Now cut your cap and apply pectin there. Now cut your pigtail off just before you apply the cap.
b) I also had success by applying a flag before the cap. Cut a bit of leaf shaped sort of like a P with a wide upstroke and no hole in the loop. Apply pectin. Wrap that leg of the P around the head, then convince the round bit of the P to cover where the cap will go. You probably have to cut a couple slits at 2 and 4 oclock of the P loop to convince it. Now apply your cap.

Hey don't get discouraged. Post some pics of your best rolls here, and any one of us will tell you we have done worse. After all, none of us have the advantage of having rolled twelve hours a day in a sweatshop since the age of eight, like that capable matron Maria Conchita Lupita Evita Rosita de Jesus and her sister Luz. We do, however, enjoy the advantage of not having to get paid piecework for creditable product or go hungry, so we can take our time.
 

johnlee1933

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I have a couple of points here which might be instructive. Like yourself, I am a beginner roller.

1) My first batch was a rank failure rolled from tobacco bought at another site. I rolled them way way too tight. I believe upon reflection that I wetted the leaves too much, so that as they dried they shrank. My second batch was from the same Whole Leaf sampler. This leaf is of MUCH higher quality, far tastier, better conditioned. These cigars were a pretty fair success and smoke well. I am seasoning them now. In this case, I was wary of making them toot tight, so i did not wet them hardly at all. They came out a bit loose. But as they season, they do appear to be firming up some. So my first suggestion would be, let the filler be, dampen the binder, wet the wrapper, then let them rest.

2) At first, I was inclined to just bunch the filler together. To start the second batch, I bunched them together but end-for-ended them to make my cylinders more consistent. Toward the end, I discovered how to accordion the leaves. That right there was a milestone. Just fold each leaf back and forth zigzag as you bunch it up. Works wonder.

3) Feel free to throw leaf away. Not just the stems; but the funky bunched parts. Lay whole long leaves together all accordioned, then tear away the ends to length. You get a much straighter and more cylindrical shape if you throw your funky bits away.

4) Don sent me twice as much wrapper as I needed. This is becuase virtually every bezuke leaf he sent had two perfect sides to it. Like deluxe above, I used one half for binder and the other half for wrapper. If I were to do it again using the sampler, I would definitely use both sides of one leaf for the binder and one side of the next leaf for a wrapper. That's right -- double bind the thing. This bezuke is so delicate that I think two layers, rolled at the same time, not one after another, would make it easier to hold the bunch firm and cylindrical. Don't worry -- you should have plenty. I received two bundles of bezuke. I rolled consistent robustos about 5 1/2" x 50 gauge and yet I had almost a whole bundle left.

5) If your head is giving you trouble coming apart, try either of these ways:

a) When your wrapper approaches the head, smear your pectin on the remnaider pretty thoroughly, then wrap on up, then twist the end into a wet pigtail. Now cut your cap and apply pectin there. Now cut your pigtail off just before you apply the cap.
b) I also had success by applying a flag before the cap. Cut a bit of leaf shaped sort of like a P with a wide upstroke and no hole in the loop. Apply pectin. Wrap that leg of the P around the head, then convince the round bit of the P to cover where the cap will go. You probably have to cut a couple slits at 2 and 4 oclock of the P loop to convince it. Now apply your cap.

Hey don't get discouraged. Post some pics of your best rolls here, and any one of us will tell you we have done worse. After all, none of us have the advantage of having rolled twelve hours a day in a sweatshop since the age of eight, like that capable matron Maria Conchita Lupita Evita Rosita de Jesus and her sister Luz. We do, however, enjoy the advantage of not having to get paid piecework for creditable product or go hungry, so we can take our time.
I agree with all of the above. It will work. Personally I weigh filler (whole leaf de-ribbed) I lay the halves out parallel with the right ends all matching. I then cut the bunch at the length I want my cigar. I take what I cut off and move it to the right so the cut ends match the tips I matched up before the cut. This gives me approximately equal volume the whole length of the bunch. Any tips sticking out the left side are cut off and added back wherever the bunch seems skinny. I then roll the bunch pretty hard with my rubber mat, bind it and set it aside till I am finished the batch. I then select wrapper and wrap. My wrapper is pretty wet and I wet the rolling board also. The damp wrapper kinda sticks to it and makes nice uniform stretching easier. I then let them dry over night. The humidity here is very low so they dry "crispy". I then put them in my humidor to stabilize.

As Delux has said over and over the filler must be almost crispy.
 

deluxestogie

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Something that I often fail to clarify is my statement that it took me about 30 cigars before they were reliably smokable. Since I always roll a single cigar, then smoke it immediately, I learn from each cigar. So...30 cigars. If you start off rolling batches of say 10 cigars at a time, then it may take you closer to 300 cigars (30 "batches") to get there.

Once you have the techniques down, then batches may be reasonable.

Bob
 

Seanz

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Thanks for all the imput guys. I am going to have another crack at it today, I usually roll three at a time, And this time i will take some photos, Will try the accordian way. This is fun.
 

webmost

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Yeah, I dunno how you guys can find the time, lay all the stuff out, mix your pectin, tab a beer, find a game on the toob, pull your sleeves up, and then roll just three .. much less just ONE!

Once I get started, I'm in the zone. I'm enjoying the aroma. I'm frustrated by the last one and looking forward to the next one. I'm running inside to show my current best to the RedHead, then rushing back to try and best that.

One? That's like gearing up, swinging your leg over, then riding your motorcycle to the nearest bar. There's a bar in Mingo West Virginia that has Guinness on tap and live Bluegrass in the lobby. I'm riding there. I want that tobacco leaf odor to linger all over my hands for two days.

Nope. I gotta roll for a couple hours minimum; four hours preferably.

I can't roll just one.
 

Marlee

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That is great advice on rolling. Thank you. How long do you keep them in the mold before you wrap the wrapper? My leaves are coming in today so I will hoepfully be making cigars this weekend.
 

Jitterbugdude

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That is great advice on rolling. Thank you. How long do you keep them in the mold before you wrap the wrapper?

Everyone has their own method and time frame. Usually a minimum of 2 hours though if you are using a mold. Put your cigars in the mold and press for 1 hour. Take out and rotate about 90 degrees and press for 1 more hour. By taking the cigars out and rotating you eliminate the raised line on each side of the cigar.
 

istanbulin

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I have a new problem about cigar. I rolled some good cigars up to date, some of them burned unproperly but most of them smokable. For this one, it really get flexible (like a sausage) after few puffs. Either filler and binder leaves were really dry, also wrapper leaf was in medium case. I've no idea why the cigar became so flexible (so wet). Any ideas ?
 

jekylnz

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Not sayn I know, but I personally find drying them out well after making,then bringing them back to case after that,,they seem to stay tighter better,..otherwise maybe they're to losely rolled
Wen iv used high case wrapp they tighten pretty good after they've dried out,
Im sure someone with more experience will enlighten your methods,with some good advice
 

Smokin Harley

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That's like gearing up, swinging your leg over, then riding your motorcycle to the nearest bar. There's a bar in Mingo West Virginia that has Guinness on tap and live Bluegrass in the lobby. I'm riding there. I want that tobacco leaf odor to linger all over my hands for two days.

sounds like you and I would get along good.
 

webmost

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Yeah, well, now I made a liar outta myself. I cut drastically back to a three a day rolling routine, which vastly improved my skills. And besides that, I heard the Brazen Head tavern in Mingo, the owner got heart probs, and there's doubt it's running now.

If I could cut back to one a day, that would really be something.
 
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