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Organic Help for Tobacco

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Fisherman

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Hello all,

I am thinking that growing on small scale is a good thing and it is possible to use many of the organic ways to raise a better crop both in flavor and quality and of course yeild.

Things I think that would help are ;\

Bokasi composting
Worm beds
Composting
Manures
Black soldier fly composting
Mycorrhizal fungi

And these are all things that reduce waste and add to the health of your ground as well..

Makes sence and can save money.

Will add more later
 

Chicken

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you can never go wrong with any type of organic growing,

ive used chicken manure/ sawdust very sucessfully in the past.
 

SmokesAhoy

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just don't get too hung up on organic like the hippies. we have a lot of good safe products (if used correctly) available to us today thanks to science that shouldn't be overlooked just to satisfy some feelgood ideal that doesn't have it's roots in anything evidence based. it's nice to do if all is going well but don't sacrifice your crop to the gospel of people who just do what they think feels right if things aren't going so well.

ok coming down off the soapbox now:)
 

FmGrowit

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In my opinion...Organic is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. If chemicals are used properly (as Smokes has stated), there is minimal concern for reduced safety. Even big tobacco tests every crop per grower and if excessive amounts of chemicals are found, the entire lot is rejected. If the grower tries to export the crop to Europe, he'll find the standards there are more restrictive than in the US.

This year, there are contracts for over 3 million pounds of "organic" Flue Cured tobacco. Like I said earlier, (IMO) organic is a marketing gimmick, but it sells...that's the only reason it is grown.
 

BarG

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ITs all about the money! Its bettor for you they say and preach, pay for it, more money. Common sense should weigh in with concerns to health in homegrown tobacco. Not so much in fertilizer as insect control or other applied topical treatments.
I know the fertilizer Experts will weigh in here. I would use a good chemical fertilizer for tobacco if what I need was attainable in my area, Even at a premium, it is not as a standard item. Horse shit and lime this year for me!

As a side note on home composting from kitchen and whatever you want to add. I made 15-20 gallons worth in a barrel composter started last year and while probably extremely rich in nutrients from an experiment that started broccoli like crazy, it was doubbly rich in fungus gnats and immediately dubbed useless for my tobacco.
 

DonH

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In general Organic is not just marketing. Tests show that organic vegetables have no pesticide residue but conventional ones have them. And there is no safe levels of some of those chemicals, they are neurotoxic. Most of them were discovered as part of chemical warfare methods in WW1 and WWII (nerve gas is basically the same chemical family as many pesticides). Now since you don't consume tobacco right after harvest and most of the pesticides decay over months, I agree it's not a big problem for the smoker, but it is for the farmers who use it, and who get exposed to it during application. And chemical fertilizers have that radioactive rock phosphate and I believe that the major cause of lung cancer from smoking is the radioactive Polonium that gets taken up from the phosphate added to the soil by the tobacco plants.

Organic food is better for you. It costs more because it's much harder to control pests without the nasty chemicals. More labor and expense. I always ask people, sure it costs more, but if someone offered you $1000 to eat a couple of tablespoons of pesticides, would you take the money?

And, the systemic pesticides kill all bugs including beneficial insectsand the herbicides kill all the plants except the Monsanto GMO crops. You end up with a monoculture that is unstable and susceptible to worse infestations so you have to keep using the chemicals and sending all the money to Dow Chemical and Monsanto and the like. OK, down off my soapbox now.
 

BarG

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Organic food is better for you. It costs more because it's much harder to control pests without the nasty chemicals. More labor and expense. I always ask people, sure it costs more, but if someone offered you $1000 to eat a couple of tablespoons of pesticides, would you take the money?
OK, down off my soapbox now.

I agree 100% about the pesticides. However, there would be a bunch more people starving without the strides made in fertilizers and pesticides.
[Don't forget better commercial farming practices, unrelated of course]
Good and bad pesticides and fertilizers have helped sustain an ever growing population .
When you grow your own, you choose.

My dad used to laugh about ddt. When he was young they used to run cattle thruough troughs and he would get soaked with it. I hope I live as long as he did. Your daddy and you probably ate the beef. I know I did!
 

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We used to run our cows through burlap sacks soaked in diesel fuel, oil and sulpher. Smelled like hell.
 

Fisherman

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By organics I don't mean the "Green Administration" or "COmmie Pinko Hippy" ways....

Stuff that are based on sceince like the endo fungus that can and do help 90% of tobacco plants by eating stuff like vermiculim rot etc and help battle root knot is what I mean...

Organics is rabbit and chicken crap and composting......

Isn't many of us that havene't dipped a mangy dawg in used motor oil........ Thats organic.....

But seriously there are some new things that can work to fight things like fungus knats too.. I think someone mentioned BT????

Also true is that many chemical fertilizers just don't give the same "crap" that crap does. :)

I am seriously looking into some of the new composting methods like the soldier flys and Bokashi too... Keeps down odors and is really rapid...... If we could recycle all waste we make except the plastics and metals we would have better stands of tobacco I would bet and cheaper too..

PS I spent 30 years as commercial fisherman and sure aren't a tree hugger.... But Squanto the native who helped the Pilgrims was on to something with those fish under the seed. I can't find what size fish he used to go catch some now! :)
 

Knucklehead

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Maybe organic was the wrong word. Try "natural soil amendments and pesticides" or something. There are recipes for pesticides made from tobacco varieties strong in nicotine. Soapy water for aphids. Compost. Manure. I think the term organics may leave a sour taste.
 

Fisherman

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Maybe organic was the wrong word. Try natural soil amendments and pesticides or something. There are recipes for pesticides made from tobacco varieties strong in nicotine. Soapy water for aphids. Compost. Manure. I think the term organics may leave a sour taste.

You are right.......... Can we use nicotine spray on our plants to control aphids or will it cause to much nicotine in finished leaf?????
 

BarG

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PS I spent 30 years as commercial fisherman and sure aren't a tree hugger.... But Squanto the native who helped the Pilgrims was on to something with those fish under the seed. I can't find what size fish he used to go catch some now! :)

Thats exactly what comes to mind when I think organic, the small fish under the corn seeds.
I bet the tribes rarely suffered ecoli outbreaks and recalls as witnessed today.

Thanks to fire ants that will never happen here.
 

Knucklehead

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You are right.......... Can we use nicotine spray on our plants to control aphids or will it cause to much nicotine in finished leaf?????

I haven't heard of that being a problem. I know it won't work by just spraying the leaves, you have to spray it directly on the pest.
 

littlechikchik

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I'm sure plenty of people on here have heard about and used pepper wax spray. You might consider upping the ante by combining that with the tobacco pesticide. You could also use a stronger pepper, like that ghost chili pepper. Those things are so hot you cant let em come into contact with your bare skin once you cut them.

On a related note, there are a lot of natural pest repelling and soil improving garden plants and herbs out there. Stuff like basil, mints, tarragon and what not that you can use to bolster the health of your plants. Its called permaculture a.k.a. multicropping, and its supposed to work well for small scale planting like what your suggesting, especially if your not just gonna grow tobacco. Look it up on the web and you'll find plenty of info (be warned some of the not-so-good info sites are kinda hippi-ish so stick to the official ones).
 

FmGrowit

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"What we're going to do is give you an idea as to how this food is breaking down in your body"

This isn't even junk science. These videos are of some guy who likes to see himself on TV and on proof mold exists. There are plenty of very logical explanations as to why the fries didn't mold. Boiling anything in oil will sterilize it. Dehydrating food by boiling it oil will preserve it too. So, if you dehydrate something and put it in a sterile environment, I would expect the results shown in this video. If the videos prove anything, it's that McDonald's has a cleaner environment than the local restaurant.

Millions of people in third world countries (not my term) have died from malaria since DDT has been outlawed...but look at all the pretty birds we have to show for it.
 

istanbulin

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Millions of people in third world countries (not my term) have died from malaria since DDT has been outlawed...but look at all the pretty birds we have to show for it.

A healthy person can easily face to malaria with a very basic medical treatment. But undernutrition is the main problem in all over the world but especially in Asia and Africa.


Fig. Number of hungry people in the world (below)
2010hungry_people.gif



Black 2003 said:
Children are the most visible victims of undernutrition. Children who are poorly nourished suffer up to 160 days of illness each year. Poor nutrition plays a role in at least half of the 10.9 million child deaths each year--five million deaths. Undernutrition magnifies the effect of every disease, including measles and malaria. The estimated proportions of deaths in which undernutrition is an underlying cause are roughly similar for diarrhea (61%), malaria (57%), pneumonia (52%), and measles.

There're some ecological treatment solutions for the habitat of malaria but there is no solution for DDT (and other agricultural chemicals) polluted waters in the world. I think they need food, fresh water and basic medical aid not DDT.
 
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Jitterbugdude

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The real advantage to organic farming is sustainability. All commercial farmers that use a typical NPK fertilizer will have to add more and more of it every few years because the commercial blends kill the microorganisms in the soil. It takes more fertilizer to get the same effect. "Organic" soil will have a higher humus count too making it more resistant to drought. Big Ag seems to think that ALL a plant needs is NPK. I'm not a soil scientist but I know a healthy plant requires more than just those 3 macro nutrients. "Organic" too doesn't mean it is safe or good. A lot of organic growers use Retenone as an insecticide. Retenone will increase your chances of developing Parkinson's Disease.

But lets remember too that tobacco is a weed. I think most people way over do it when it comes to fertilizer their tobacco.

The best thing to do is GET THAT SOIL ANALYSIS so you have a baseline for YOUR soil and YOUR plants!
 

Fisherman

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The french fry videos do seem to be somewhat slanted but even if the grease did sterilize them [fry and the "regular" frys were larger and moister ], they were not into a sterile container as most all organisms are present in air and all were introduced into supposedly same containers....


There are also video responses to this video and show that homemade reacted no different than Mickie D's and the lack of mold on most "found" french frys like the one you find in your car floorboard do not mold due to dehydration.. Same goes for the meat............. Example being beef jerky....

The videos were submitted for fun and not meant to be a statement of fact.

YouTube is a good place to learn if you research the topic and validate it thru other sources.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG4M71vMbTs

I am making some lactobasilis culture right now and the result and claimed good from it sounds really good..... I do have a problem with the method this fella suggests as the standard production method but have followed it and will see if his claims are good... This is same organism in yogurt and he suggests uses for it like pouring on septic feild line ruptures to controll oders in 24 hours, increased weight gain in animals and improving soil and plant growth.

http://tribes.tribe.net/effectivemicro/thread/d6b8fd03-e2c7-4650-a658-51fdf4f013ad

I also ordered some sort of inoculant that is supposed to help tobacco grow. Is a sort of fungi that occurs naturally but this is supposed to be somewhat more intence. Will post some results from it's use by me later.

The lacto I will use on my few chickens and on the plants as well.
 
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