Havana tobacco

[BigBonner]

Ok here is a question that we all may want to know .

What is the best type of HAVANA to grow ?

Vuelta Abajo (Is it a Havana or not ?)

Havana 142
Havana 41
Havana 38
Havana 263
Havana 425
Havana Lonnies

I know the Havana 142 seeds that I recieved from Don are way different that the Havana 41 and Lonnies havana is different from either of those two .

Is there any others that stands out ?

I am trying to figure out a Havana type to grow along with Vuelta Abajo .Or is Vuelta Abajo the best ?

 

[FmGrowit]

If you prime leaves from 142 and Abajo, I'd probably be interested in a large quantity...enough to make a pilone.

 

[BigBonner]

pilone pil o ne

Is that short for a Pile of Money ?

I Still don't know exactly what I will grow this year . If more quality help was avaliable I would go grow crazy .

Since you brought up pilone . I noticed that the temperature is taken from the middle of the pilone .
From my piles of burley and some in slightly high case . I knoticed that the bales ( stacked 4 High ) would be hotter at the bottom of the pile of bales .

If I figure right . 125 degrees in the middle of a pilone , the tobacco on the bottom could reach as high at 170 or more degrees .

I will think about alot of havana .I may be low on havana 142 seeds . Im not really sure .

Anyone have Havana 608 ?

 

[deluxestogie]

Larry,
Yes, Vuelta Abajo is a Havana variety. JBD's Vuelta Abajo was outstanding cigar leaf.

In pile fermenting, you should measure the temp at the hottest location, and rebuild the pile once the leaf at that location exceeds 125ºF. A long stem compost thermometer may work well.

Bob

 

[Ashauler]

What is your source for those pilone temps?

 

[webmost]

How do you know which one you have?

I scored a teensy tiny vial of near microscopic seeds from a cigar pass. All I know is the vial had "Hab" written on it real small. No room for the "ano". They are sprouting up and really going to town right now. How do I know which one I have?

Not that it matters, I guess. I'm not changing horses mid-stream.

And I am only growing the one kind. It's gonna have to do for filler, binder, and wrapper.

But how do people distinguish these kinds?

 

[deluxestogie]

What is your source for those pilone temps?

That is an excellent question.

Fermentation temperatures cover a wide range of recommended values. Since the required leaf enzymes are destroyed at 149ºF, and leaf begins to noticeably darken above about 135ºF, it seems wise to limit bulk fermentation temperatures to below 130ºF. For very light colored leaf, such as CT Shade, temps are usually kept much lower (as low as 98ºF in some references).

Here is a selection of sources that I have explored:

Cuba-Junky discusses cigar leaf handling from planting to cigar production. Their discussion of fermentation is detailed, but they mention no fermentation temperature.
http://www.cuba-junky.com/cuba/cigar-curingfermentation8.htm

This German language site offers some interesting recommendations, though the sources of their numbers are unclear.

Tobacco Fermentation from www.tabakanbau.de

Typical data for tobacco fermentation
With a thermostatic Wärmebox can achieve very good fermentation results, as temperature and duration are controlled very well. We have put together some guidelines for different types of tobacco as a guide for their own experiments. The fermentation time, however, depends on the drying result and may be materially different.

Low nicotine tobacco cigar as Geudertheimer, Havana Z992 or Adonis:
lower leaves 12 days, 50 ° C;
Middlings 18 days, 52 ° C;
Obergut 24 days, 52-55 ° C. [55 ° C = 131 ° F]

Nicotine-rich tobacco as Havana cigars dark red, or Pergeu Brasil:
lower leaves 14 days, 50 ° C;
Middlings 21 days, 52 ° C;
Obergut 28 days, 52-55 ° C.

VIRGINIA for cigarettes and pipe tobaccos:
lower leaves 6 days, 42 ° C; [42 ° C = 107.6 ° F]
Middlings 10 days, 45 ° C;
Obergut 14 days, 48 ° C.

Burleysorten for cigarettes and pipe tobaccos:
lower leaves 8 days, 45 ° C;
Middlings 12 days, 48 ° C;
Obergut 16 days, 50 ° C.

Würztabake for cigarettes and pipe blends:
As low-nicotine tobacco cigar.

Oriental varieties: No fermentation!
The rich flavors Oriental tobaccos are not fermented, but after drying, stored for two months maturation. In fermentation, they would lose their typical sweet flavors.

After completion of fermentation, the fermentation process can be stopped by the tobacco is still stored for a day at 4 ° C. This increases the shelf life, will the new flavors are absorbed better. Generally RECOMMENDS to stacked fermented tobaccos for ripening a few weeks to store.

The Floyd source was written before CT Shade Leaf was developed, though the next reference (Killebrew) is an even earlier source.

In the light wrappers the temperature should
reach about 120° F. , when the bulk is ready to turn the first time.
The fillers require a much harder fermentation and the temperature
should reach 130° or 135° F. The temperature can be taken with an
ordinary thermometer inserted into the middle of the bulk through a
hollow bamboo or other tube...

[Connecticut tobacco]
After being properly packed, the tobacco is ready to go into the "sweat", or fermentation, which begins as
the weather grows warm and continues for many weeks, and during this period the tobacco becomes warm, reaching
a temperature of 100 F., and sometimes more.

This final source is from a German company that produced cigar leaf in Havana during the early 20th century.

After the tobacco is -cured it is placed in large piles,
ranging from a half ton to several tons, and left until the
temperature rises to 120 to 130 degrees Fahrenheit, after
which the pile should be torn down and remade.

SUMMARY: Fermentation temperature should be between ~100 and 130ºF, depending on the leaf variety and the final color desired.

Bob

 

[AmaxB]

That is an excellent question.

Fermentation temperatures cover a wide range of recommended values. Since the required leaf enzymes are destroyed at 149ºF, and leaf begins to noticeably darken above about 135ºF, it seems wise to limit bulk fermentation temperatures to below 130ºF. For very light colored leaf, such as CT Shade, temps are usually kept much lower (as low as 98ºF in some references).

Here is a selection of sources that I have explored:

Cuba-Junky discusses cigar leaf handling from planting to cigar production. Their discussion of fermentation is detailed, but they mention no fermentation temperature.
http://www.cuba-junky.com/cuba/cigar-curingfermentation8.htm

This German language site offers some interesting recommendations, though the sources of their numbers are unclear.


The Floyd source was written before CT Shade Leaf was developed, though the next reference (Killebrew) is an even earlier source.




This final source is from a German company that produced cigar leaf in Havana during the early 20th century.


SUMMARY: Fermentation temperature should be between ~100 and 130ºF, depending on the leaf variety and the final color desired.

Bob

SUPER POST Thanks deluxestogie have been looking for information on this topic

 

[AmaxB]

Here is another link however the information is not so plainly stated:
http://www.archive.org/stream/curingandfermen00loewgoog/curingandfermen00loewgoog_djvu.txt

 

[AmaxB]

Here is another link (lots of info) the PDF is better than the text ver.
http://www.tobaccoscienceonline.org/toc/tbcs//1?seq=1

 

[deluxestogie]

The Lowe reference (the first of your two most recently posted links) is available for pdf download. http://archive.org/details/curingandfermen00loewgoog
It is the source of detailed info on the function and denaturing of tobacco oxidase and peroxidase enzymes at various temperatures. A treasure.

Bob

 

[jekylnz]

The Lowe reference (the first of your two most recently posted links) is available for pdf download. http://archive.org/details/curingandfermen00loewgoog
It is the source of detailed info on the function and denaturing of tobacco oxidase and peroxidase enzymes at various temperatures. A treasure.

Bob

Great info..

 

[Seanz]

Great post man lots of good reading

 

[jekylnz]

Isn't pilone ,pylon,lol

 

[BarG]

Whats the best recommended download? Larry, I hope you get your answer on the Havana! We will find out soon enough ,Huh.

 

[Ashauler]

Thanks deluxe, we're using the same references.

 

[ChuckP]

Anyone have Havana 608 ?

I sent a bunch of 608 to Don for the seed bank. try there first, if not I probably have 50 +/- that I could send out, if needed.

 

[BigBonner]

I sent a bunch of 608 to Don for the seed bank. try there first, if not I probably have 50 +/- that I could send out, if needed.

How did the Havana 608 grow compared to other Havanas if you grew any other types ?
Was it ?

Bigger leaves ?
taller ?
better quality than other types ?

 

[DGBAMA]

First year grower here, but I have some of Lonnie's Havannah started here. A couple impressions at 17 days from seeding: They are by far the healthiest looking largest seedlings I have from 7 varieties.

Key note, transplanted them from bulk tray to individual cells at 14 days; I was amazed that all varieties transplanted had a "taproot" of well over an inch long except the LHavannah. The deepest one might have been 1/2 inch, yet they appear to be the healthier plants. This is counter-intuitive but may indicate that if you have a growing area where the soil is not deep enough for some tobacco that the LH may root more shallow and do well. Also may indicate that this variety is not suitable for high wind areas due to a shallower root system. Having noted this I plan on comparing the LH root ball to that of my other varieties at the end of the season to see if this holds true.

The shallow root system may be a Havannah trait in general and not specific to "lonnies" but I do not have another havannah to compare it with so cannot say.

 

[workhorse_01]

Man I wish you lived closer, I'd follow you around like a little puppydog

If more quality help was avaliable I would go grow crazy .