Another seed saving site... with silica jell!

[Jitterbugdude]

Here's another site that carries supplies for long term seed storage. Scroll down to the bottom where the silica jell is and click on the link. It tells you how to use silica jell and how to rehydrate it.

http://www.southernexposure.com/supplies-c-216.html?page=1&sort=20a

 

[Aaron]

That's pretty cool. Color changing silica for dry seeds to proper moisture content. Nice find.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Get it now before they sell out. Remember we recently had a run on Organza bags and the company sold out.
This place also sells (on the 2nd page) some nice little seed storage containers. They are plastic tubes that should make for a nice intermediate storage of your seeds They are almost sold out of all of them though... I just placed an order

 

[leverhead]

Good find! The next page has bigger quantities. I wonder how well the sample vials seal up?

 

[Knucklehead]

Good deal. I need one of those marking pens too.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Good find! The next page has bigger quantities. I wonder how well the sample vials seal up?

Doug uses the plastic vials and says they work well for storing seeds for a short time (a few years). He uses the heat seal foil envelopes for long term storage in a freezer

 

[Knucklehead]

Here's the instruction sheet for using the silica jell. http://www.southernexposure.com/drying-seed-with-color-indicating-silica-gel-ezp-26.html

 

[istanbulin]

As I saw from the photos in the web site, the moisture indicator is changing its color from orange to green according to moisture content (or RH of the closed space) so the indicator is methyl violet, a toxic and potentially carcinogenic compound. So being careful while using it may be better. BTW, the indicator impregnated silica gel's price is very higher than regular (transparent) silica gels so you may add a little amount of indicator silica gel to the regular one, you'll see little amount of indicator will work to see the humidity. In this way, you'll pay less and you'll use the minimum amount of that toxic compound.

Edit : Web site says that they're using phenolphthalein as the moisture indicator but they're telling a lie. Because phenolphthalein never turns into green.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I ordered some Silica jell but since I have a big bottle of anhydrous calcium chloride I will probably use that instead- or maybe experiment and use both.

 

[darren1979]

For saving seed i use two zip lock bags one larger than the other, the seeds in the smaller sealed bag. Then pop the smaller bag with some dry rice into the larger bag and seal.

I dont use an indicator but its a very good idea, my girlfriend has some bags of beads which change from clear/white to orange when in contact with moisture, plus you can microwave them to remove the moisture to re-use. Im not sure what they are made of, ill have a look.

 

[Markw]

I was just reading this thread and was thinking, how about vacuum sealing them like food for long term storage, As we are all aware anything sealed under a vacuum stores much longer even chilled of frozen and you don't get freezer burn or damage. just an idea you could paint the bags black to exclude light.

 

[FmGrowit]

Southern exposure is a titty bar in West Virginia or Virginia. I pass it up every time I go to NC. I never thought they would sell seed stuff too. I'll have to stop in next time I go for baccy.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I was just reading this thread and was thinking, how about vacuum sealing them like food for long term storage,

So far all the research I 've seen says the absolute most important variable to control is moisture. If you do not dry your seed before vacuum packing it, it will degrade just as rapidly as if you just put it in a jar.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Southern exposure is a titty bar in West Virginia or Virginia. I pass it up every time I go to NC. I never thought they would sell seed stuff too. I'll have to stop in next time I go for baccy.

If its a titty bar wouldn't it be called "Northern" exposure? If you do stop in pick me up some "Southern Beauty" a rare cultivar indeed!

 

[deluxestogie]

Keep in mind that seed is alive. Its metabolism is just very slow. Seal it under vacuum or in pure nitrogen, and I would expect the period of viability to be shortened.

I've driven past the Southern Exposure signs, just north of the VA border. It does look pretty seedy.

Bob

 

[Frozenthunderbolt]

not sure about the version that that site sells but i bought some from another vendor that pink/blue changes and is non-toxic, so there is an alternative

 

[istanbulin]

not sure about the version that that site sells but i bought some from another vendor that pink/blue changes and is non-toxic, so there is an alternative

Sorry to say that it's cobalt(II) chloride (blue when dry / pink when wet). Actually methyl violet was an alternative to cobalt(II) chloride but both of them are toxic. When compared as a toxic (and a potentially carginogenic) compound, cobalt(II) chloride is more potent than methyl violet.


EDIT:

Here are the MSDSs (Material Safety Data Sheet) of these compounds from Sigma-Aldrich (chemical company) according to ENs (European Norm), probably American Standarts are same (actually as I saw from some applications, American Standarts are generally more strict than EN).

Cobalt(II) chloride / Methyl violet

 

[johnlee1933]

Sorry to say that it's cobalt(II) chloride (blue when dry / pink when wet). Actually methyl violet was an alternative to cobalt(II) chloride but both of them are toxic. When compared as a toxic (and a potentially carginogenic) compound, cobalt(II) chloride is more potent than methyl violet.


EDIT:

Here are the MSDSs (Material Safety Data Sheet) of these compounds from Sigma-Aldrich (chemical company) according to ENs (European Norm), probably American Standarts are same (actually as I saw from some applications, American Standarts are generally more strict than EN).

Cobalt(II) chloride / Methyl violet

If you read the MSDS it has a very high melting point and (as expected) no data is available on vapor pressure. With these two data points I would think transfer to seeds would be EXTREMELY low. It is commonly used a a moisture indicator and there is no evidence of transfer during phase change. Personally, if I needed it I would use it with little concern of transfer to (properly bagged) seed. As a precaution I would discard any seed subject to liquid water that had washed over it.

There many very toxic substances in our world that are safely used. e.g. mercury in light bulbs and nicotine in tobacco.

In my experience people fear the unknown/misunderstood.

 

[istanbulin]

If you read the MSDS it has a very high melting point and (as expected) no data is available on vapor pressure. With these two data points I would think transfer to seeds would be EXTREMELY low. It is commonly used a a moisture indicator and there is no evidence of transfer during phase change. Personally, if I needed it I would use it with little concern of transfer to (properly bagged) seed. As a precaution I would discard any seed subject to liquid water that had washed over it.

There many very toxic substances in our world that are safely used. e.g. mercury in light bulbs and nicotine in tobacco.

In my experience people fear the unknown/misunderstood.

First, read it carefully there are two datas about vapor pressure (but for very high temperatures). Second, there's no relation with melting point and contamination, contamination may occur when the chemical is in solid phase.
Cobalt(II) chloride usage abandoned in medicinal areas but they're using methyl violet (they found it safer). Keep in mind users of that compounds are professionals but you're not and they're using them in loboratory conditions. I used safely both of them in loboratory but I never use them at home. I'm not talking about health of the seeds, I'm interested in your/my health and environment. If you do not use it properly contamination may occur easily. There's another point, do you know how to dispose it when you finished your work with it, do you have access to chemical waste areas ? You may use it or not, it's your decision but if you want to use silica gel, there're regular ones without any indicators emprignated but I must say that nobody need them (except professionals). Using a basic hygrometer will solve the problem about checking the RH or moisture content with basic or inert desiccants like some calcium compuonds, charcoals, clayish materials and even toasted rice. BTW, waste light bulbs containing mercury is really an environmental problem in the world because most of people don't care about their regular disposal.

 

[Knucklehead]

Istanbulin - what do you recommend for the home grower to use, and how to measure for best MC of seed before storage? Keep it simple, remember I'm a knucklehead.