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Dip

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Thebeard23

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Hey fellas,

I'm looking for a good dip recipe. I normally dip skoal straight but the prices in Canada are becoming insane ($23 per can). I've tried Swedish snus and cooked a few batches of crockpot snus but It just does not do it for me and I prefer dip.

my question for you dippers is.... Can I make dip using the same technique as crockpot snus? I have just ordered a pound of dark fire cured. Is the fire cured the only flavour needed for that straight taste? Can sugar free sweeteners be used?

After searching around the web, I can't seem to find an idiots guide to making dip. And trust me I need one!
 

FmGrowit

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This is from an old diary of some sort...can't quite remember where I got it.

It's a little had to follow, but I think it's simple.


From somewhere on the internet

"You go into the woods (or wherever) and find a good stout sassafras log that is at least 4 inches in diameter. You hollow out the wood from one side, making look like a log boat. (Optional – at this point you can char the inside if you want more of a smoky flavor.)

You compact several tobacco leaves into the hollow of the log. Pour on top of the tobacco either molasses or honey mixed with peach brandy or hard apple cider (4 T. molasses to 1 t. brandy or 2 t. hard cider). Fashion a wooden plug for the piece of beech wood. Let it sit for 4-6 months while the honey or molasses and the tobacco leaf ferment. That produces chewing tobacco.

I keep six of ‘em going all of the time, since one batch lasts me about a month.



Chewing Tobacco-recipes

Glad too give you my recipe. I do not let quantities play into my batches too much. It is
all sort of generally that and that and always comes out good. I use fermented tobacco. For years my dad and I used unfermented tobacco and thought that was alright. But then free makes a lot of things
right.Well fermented tobacco is very tasty plain.


My favorite thing is using a fruit juice as a casing. For example peach juice right out of the can, cherries, wine, apples. Cherry is just awesome and we live in a region where cherries are plentiful.


For this example I will go with apple juice. For a sweetener you can try brown sugar,honey,molasses etc. We will use molasses today and the country store stuff ; no name brand; is remarkably better. A pinch of salt brings everything together. Now for the process and this is simple. If this doesn't sound simple something is wrong. The whole home tobacco thing is common sense and use what you have.
The goal is always not to spend any money.


Using the largest fry pan in the kitchen pour in a skim deep quantity of apple cider and boil. When the
stuff is boiled away some, pour in some more and boil it off again. I keep this up 4 or 5 rounds and the liquid gets richer with the loss of water and turns dark gold. It thickens some but not like a syrup. It
is still pretty thin.And the depth of the juice in the pan is never more than a skim that covers the bottom. When you are satisfied the juice has come closer to the essence of the apple add a couple shakes of salt and 2 to 5 tablespoons of molasses.


The total time so far is perhaps 10 minutes. Using a wooden spoon I stir in tobacco until the juices are soaked up and a very definite tacky feel comes to the leaves like it is drying out. I turn the heat off by the way, stirring in leaves immediately. The heat drives the flavors into instead of on the tobacco. I do not cook the tobacco. When it doesn't dry out for me quickly I leave it in the pan for a while, even overnite.Please understand the leaf never is supposed to dry out but it should get tacky. It is like the molasses has taken over and it is stickier than it is wet. While the stuff is hot keep rolling it around and picking it up and the steam will just roll off it. Believe me, writing this description is much harder than the actual process. You cannot screw it up. Guaranteed. You are done. Total time 15 minutes. The quantity of tobacco is about enough to fill a sandwich bag being about as large as a mans fist. You should sample it right away as to experience the disappointment that comes with it. It improves
remarkably in just a few days. If you prefer this wet, pouch type of tobacco store it in the fridge. It keeps well for a few weeks.


There is a better way. My home grown is fermented with the main stems removed. So my brews consist of long strands equal to half of a leaf.When the aforementioned process is complete I lay these out and
twist into ropes about three feet long. Roll these up tightly in some cloth. ( No dyes, Perfumes) (Old sheets work, White Shirts). Then assuming this thing is 3 ft long fold 8 or 10 inches over and continue
folding until the rope is a more compact flattened coil. Now wrap twine very tightly around this thing from end to end like a noose. Don't open it for at least a month. When you get the hang of things
you can make these up for months in advance. Store them in cool dark places like you would cigars. They keep well outdoors in some full shade place in the winter when the humidity is high.Don't let the sunshine on them nor let the rain on them. I have never had one of these mold. As a closing note, the dark green varieties make the finest chewing tobacco.


Burn tobacco stems and stalks and use this ash in place of other specified plant ash."
 

Jitterbugdude

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I make chew all the time. I do not make much of a distinction between dip and chew, although most people do. You do not need sugar type sweeteners, nor should you want to use sugar type sweeteners, they just contribute to tooth decay. I use pure neotame and/or pure sucralose for my sweetener. It amazes me how complicated people makes things. Just take a handful of shredded leaf, add your sweetener of choice, some concentrated flavoring (from LorAnn Oils) and enough liquid to get it to the consistency you want. That should take you about 3 minutes and you are done. I like to add a little bit of glycerine to my mix. Once you've made a "baseline" batch you can then start changing the proportions around to suit your needs. For starters, here's a recipe a use that I like

1 ounce of shredded leaf ( I like Yellow Orinoco the best but Yellow Twist Bud is good too)
1 T of Xylitol- This is a sugar free sweetener that actually prevents tooth decay. It is not needed though because it does not add much sweetness to the mix. I only include it for its anti-cavity ability.
1/8 tsp of pure sucralose- you will have to play around with this, some people like their dip/chew sweeter than others.
1 T of Glycerine- improves the mouth-feel of the chew/dip
1 tsp of pure Wintergreen oil
40cc of water- this is approximate. Add enough to make it as wet as you want. 40cc will give you a fairly wet product.

Mix everything together on a bowl. Stir it up a few times a day to let the contents absorb into the leaf.
If it it too wet to your liking, just spread it out on the table and in a day or two it will be dry.
You can also try warming this up in a pot for a few minutes to help dissolve everything better but I find that is not necessary.

By using Wintergreen or Cinnamon oil this will never mold on you but be aware that if you are using others sweeteners such as Apple that it will mold within a few days.

I'll post a link soon as to where to get the pure Neotame/Sucralose.... it's hard to come by in its pure form

Edit: Here it is- http://www.a1cr.net/index.php?id=60

Be careful when using the pure stuff. It is so potent that if you put a bit on your tongue it will overwhelm your taste buds and actually taste bad
 

Thebeard23

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Thanks guys! I'm gonna have some experimenting to do. Jitterbug do you normally use fire cured for your recipes?
 

Jitterbugdude

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Thanks guys! I'm gonna have some experimenting to do. Jitterbug do you normally use fire cured for your recipes?
I use anything I can get my hands on. I have not tried fired cured (yet). I've tried air cured flue varieties, burley, oriental and Maryland. The oriental tasted odd as a chew.
 

jekylnz

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In this day n age with all the smoking bans chew is probably going to become more and more popular .tastes like shyte to me. I spit it out as soon as I can start tasting that peppery baccy. Or maybe I just haven't tried any decent chew??it's illegal to sell here cause of all the mouth cancer drama.so the only stuff u Eva come across is home made,& most kiwis probably hav no idea what they're really doing
 

JMV

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I ordered some Dark Air KY for perfecting my snuff recipe
while I wait for my black stalk mammoth to grow - going to air dry

to a 1/4 cup tobacco
2-5 teaspoon Water dissolve
1/8 teaspoon baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate)
1/16 to 1/8 teaspoon salt
add teaspoon or two of Mrs. Butterworth's Sugar Free
or maybe sweetleaf powder (a.k.a. stevia - natural sugar substitute) since I have a bunch of that now

isnt necessary at all but some baking soda or sodium carbonate will raise the ph increasing nicotine uptake and also makes it harder to mold
sodium carbonate AKA washing soda is better than baking soda but much stronger I would say use 50% less = 1/16 teaspoon sodium carbonate
By experience I know to much sodium carbonate wont be pleasant I have a can here you can just tell by the smell coming off it its to much

Salt also preserves but baking soda is somewhat more saltly so you may need to add more salt if using sodium carbonate
Again I would say no more than 50% more salt perhaps more like 3/16 teaspoon salt
remember you can always add more but diluting a big batch can be a real pain and tastes differ

I have a older 1 1/2 cup black & decker handy chopper just for tobacco since when the local store ran out of Copenhagen fine cut I made my own from Long Cut. just as good!
you can pick up a Handy Chopper Plus now pretty cheap rather than tear up a full food processor (my attempt at some paper making!) anyway its just great for all small experimenting
I dont know about the crockpot method but guess its for the color humm I'll have to look for a second crockpot to play with
mixing and keeping it in a hot place say over the hot water heater should darken it up over time though

a friend (78yr old) who buys 45-90 lbs at a time from NC (mostly for chew) has helped me invaluably
once I have some large stems I'll chop n throw em in a jar of water to steep for later use you can then "flavor" to your strength liking
just some of this water & flavoring (juice) in a baggy on the dashboard seem to work fine
True Apple and Cherry flavored Chew will mold quite quickly, keep even small batches refrigerated and sealed good
If you have a cherry tree (even a crappy one 'just for the birds') you just cant beat good ole cherry juice yum
I do have half a jar of blackstrap molasses but that stuff isnt cheap! and it created a problem with ants the last time used.

you may thinks im half crazy to but kool aid and jello gelatin might make for some interesting mixes later...
You can find copenhagen / skoal snuff ingredients on their site http://www.ussmokeless.com/en/cms/Home/default.aspx
copenhagen is a mix of dark fire cured and dark air cured as I suspect most snuff s to be
Redman is a really nice snuff (I thought I wouldnt like after trying the chew) but I have no idea how to get anywhere close to redman
I think it has alot to do with what tobacco is used and in what amounts blended?
 

Thebeard23

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Thanks jmv that was an awesome post! Do you let your mix sit for a while or is it good to throw right in the lip?

Fmgrowit, my 1lb of dark fire cured got here no problem. Our customs didn't even look at the package, which is nice because I didn't have to pay any extra fees.
 

JMV

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Thanks
some soak (for 5-7 days) it in water, some salt+water and some just throw the whole mix together
but whatever the theory it will be darker & better flavor after a week in a sealed container
(commercial snuffs are often aged years)
The Dark Air KY tastes just like a plug I had 30+years ago what a surprise! excellent chew as is.
excellent smell too & would have made a nice cigar if not for the waterspots anyway
I used 5 t Water though and a teaspoon of Mrs. Butterworth's which made it a tad to moist
plus a teaspoon sweetener it tasted fine - yeah i cant resist! but needs something
next I'll try 1/2 cup with 6 t Water (33%) 1/4t salt (3%) 1/4t baking soda (3%), 2 t sweetener and in guessing as to what Natural and Artificial Flavors means! 1/8t cocoa powder and actually wait a week!

grond.jpg

^ I love the lid that turns 2 liters into reusable containers but dont know where to purchase anymore.
my makeshift sieve (the tin can) wire gives me just above a fine cut
a sieve is really good at getting smaller hard stems out and a consistent grind I sieve it after about a minute grind - dry tobacco grinds better but to dry or to much grinding without sieving may = alot of fine powder. I just keep dumping what doesn't get through back in to grind - stem wont grind up in the end i had about an ounce of stem left from the end of this batch.
 

workhorse_01

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The ammonium carbonate made the taste more like Copenhagen for me, but I have the same problem you do. I couldn't wait the three years for it to age in a hogshead
 

RyanM22

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For those that have made their own dip, any luck with shredding to mimic long-cut? Actually, a mid/long cut would be perfect
 

RyanM22

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I used a Vitamix in the past and they came out more as chunks than shreds. Width was the issue.
 

FALaholic

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You could try a pasta shredder, set on angle hair. Closest you're gonna get. At that point you're gonna need to whip out the scissors.
 

Jitterbugdude

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I use a Vitamix too and I get a very nice fine powder for snus. The Powermatic shredder yields very fine cut. Much finer than a pasta maker.
 

G-Chew

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I sometimes use a paper cutter (not a shredder but a cutter).
I take the safety bar off and take a piece that I have pressed into a brink,
Pressed 1.jpg Pressed 2.jpg

cut it, spread it out to let it dry and package,

cut 1.jpg
or store as a brick in the freezer and cut later.
 
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