Whole Leaf Tobacco
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  1. #11
    Founder FmGrowit's Avatar
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    Industrial/resourceful entrepreneur's and product developers wanted

    I think I'll have to spring this concern on an extension agent.

  2. #12
    Founding Member BarG's Avatar
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    Would't vacume sealing slow down or prohibit mould growth for at least a fair amount of time.

  3. #13
    Founder FmGrowit's Avatar
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    Yeah...I've been tinkering with that too...I'm guessing....a vacuum tube on one side of the bag and then inject a little CO or N2 or H2 into the bag...but I'm just guessing.

  4. #14
    Founding Member BarG's Avatar
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    Are tobacco moulds anerobic{doesn't need oxygen to grow} or aerobic[needs oxygen] ? As far as which gas to use for lack of better term I'm sure your guess would be better than mine lol. I bet some one will be glad to answer that one, maybe hakamodo, isn't he into science alot. Am sending Hakomodo pm with thread.
    Last edited by BarG; 09-02-2011 at 10:40 PM. Reason: just sent Hakomodo pm

  5. #15
    Administrator deluxestogie's Avatar
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    Don,
    Most molds are aerobic, though they require very little O2 to grow. Is there a particular reason to want to store leaf in middle case, rather than in a somewhat drier state?

    Bob

  6. #16
    Founding Member BarG's Avatar
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    This would be a good thread, cured tobacco mould prevention. I have a cast iron stomach and can eat anything preservatives or not. Potassium sorbate is an antimicrobial and used in foods, and wines after fermentation to keep sweet wines from changing flavor by slowing or halting yeast growth. From reading Bobs post I know he would never dream of using and I'm not suggesting anyone should,however I haven't as yet been able to find any info on side effects of burning or smoking. I would'nt mind keeping a few pounds around in mild to medium case as is easier for me to dry than rehydrate and wait for proper case to handle. As of yet I havent had any problem with mould but then again I Haven't had to store large quantities as I will this year. I want mine to age naturaly by coming in and out of case I presume and still have generous supply ready to smoke.

  7. #17
    Administrator deluxestogie's Avatar
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    For those who have considered what it would require to create a flue-curing kiln, I've accumulated a bit of info and prices on likely hardware. I'm just guessing, but I believe this would be ample for a 4'x4'x4' container.

    First of all, residential water heater thermostats max out at 150ºF, which is not high enough for flue-curing. There is an "industrial" version (actually, the same ones that used to be put on residential water heaters) that goes to 180ºF. This is high enough for all but the most aggressive flue-curing.

    http://www.plumbingsupply.com/elements.html#thermo
    Water Heater Thermostats (Commercial)
    180°F thermostats that are designed for commercial use
    # 08314 For lower thermostat element: Therm-O-Disc Style $11.67


    The heating element is the pricey part. I suppose it's possible to run a large Crockpot empty, and maybe get the required temps, but I don't know how long it would hold-up under that kind of abuse.

    There are two more suitable heat sources, aside from a jury-rigged baseboard heater (which you might be able to get free through your local www.freecycle.org). One is a finned strip heater:

    http://www.tempco.com/Strip%20Heater...hto_T3term.htm
    CSF00005 12" 500w 17w/in2 120v $95.50


    also:

    http://www.hotwatt.com/finned.htm
    Strip heaters: Ceramic Insulated Finned
    12" FS12 500w 120v 24w/in2 [no price]


    Both are good up to 500ºF.

    And there are silicone rubber heating pads:

    http://www.watlow.com/products/heate...id=47&famid=13
    Silicone Rubber Heaters
    Operating temperatures up to 500°F
    http://www.watlowdistributor.com/HTM...ater-Order.php
    060150C1 6" x 15" 120v 450w $58.20 ($79.36 in quantity 1)


    Both the finned-strip and the silicone rubber mat would require some creative mounting.

    The setup is similar to the familiar Crockpot Kiln. The difference is the schedule of heating over 3 to 5 days, and the humidity that is required only for the first day. Since it starts with green, wilted leaf, there is a need for ventilating the moisture. Basic flue-curing yellows the leaf at temps between 110ºF and 120ºF over 1 to 2 days, then rapidly dries it to a max of about 155-160ºF, to fix the color. This leaf will still age, slowly. Taking it up to 195ºF during days 4 and 5 will prevent the leaf from further changes, but is not needed for home use.

    Bob

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarG View Post
    Are tobacco moulds anerobic{doesn't need oxygen to grow} or aerobic[needs oxygen] ? As far as which gas to use for lack of better term I'm sure your guess would be better than mine lol. I bet some one will be glad to answer that one, maybe hakamodo, isn't he into science alot. Am sending Hakomodo pm with thread.
    Well.. as far as I know there are many types of micro-organisms that could grow on a tobacco leaf, O2 or no O2 if the humidity is just right they will start feasting on your leaves. The best thing you could do is store it dry (which would contradict the fermenting conditions) or obtain a humidor like relative humidity and use some Propylene-glycol in your water container (kills off micro-organisms).
    As for vacuum; using just vac. will dry out the leaves while displacing the air with CO (toxic) H2 (explosive) or N2 (OK I guess) might affect the way the leaf ferments, I don't really know if there are any side effects from using inert atmosphere.

    is there something I am missing here?

  9. #19
    Founding Member BarG's Avatar
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    Your not missing anything, we were contemplating a way to store tobacco long term in a mild- medium case, possibly for shipping small to medium quantities, and cut down on handling.

  10. #20
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    As for shipping in small quantities (1/2 to 1 lb packages) The way I see it being done is in a bag that is then filled with air for cushion. The tobacco is not in med case and is actually dry enough to roll into cigarettes as is. I am talking about buying RYO cigarette tobacco via the mail. whole leaf and mainly cigar leaf would have extra issues. I can tell you that tobacco at high case to actually being wet will both mold and compost very quickly. I have not noticed the same for tobacco at med case so far. So far needs to be taken seriously because I don't have all that much time under my belt with it. In my experience if tobacco is going to mold it will do so quickly, like bread.

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