Storing vs potiency

[FALaholic]

There are some on here that mention to place tobacco in cardboard boxes at ambient temp.
If I were to do the same with dip, the stuff would dry out and be worthless. How is it that tobacco is stored in ambient temp/RH, but if I do the same to my can of dip or bag of chew, it goes to waste.

 

[DonH]

I'm guessing that with prepared chew or dip there are flavorings and additives that evaporate when exposed to air. For stored unprocessed tobacco that's not the case.

 

[Knucklehead]

Crumbling to pieces or molding are about the only things you have to worry about storing tobacco. Some folks just leave it hanging where it was cured.

 

[johnlee1933]

Some folks just leave it hanging where it was cured.

I do that with most of mine. It gets into VERY low case. I add water as necessary when I want to use it.

John

 

[Chicken]

aged bacca is less harsh the older it is,,, so far i havent grew enough to let it age too much...

i have many 1 gallon glass jars and as soon as my bacca is '' ready'' i shred it ALL UP, and store it in the jars,,, with a moisture absorbant [ the things you find in a bag of beef jerky ]

 

[bonehead]

aged bacca is less harsh the older it is,,, so far i havent grew enough to let it age too much...

i have many 1 gallon glass jars and as soon as my bacca is '' ready'' i shred it ALL UP, and store it in the jars,,, with a moisture absorbant [ the things you find in a bag of beef jerky ]

is that a moisture absorbent packet or is it a packet that takes out moisture and oxygen to preserve freshness? how would tobacco age in a container that was filled with c02 before closing it? some things are stored with a oxygen absorber to help them last longer. what do you think would happen to tobacco in an oxygen starved enviroment? would it help to keep bad things from growing like when you ferment maize and malted barley with an airlock on the fermenter so it keeps it from spoiling?

 

[Knucklehead]

KISS. If it ain't broke... It's not rocket surgery...

 

[deluxestogie]

...how would tobacco age in a container that was filled with c02 before closing it?

Report your results when your experiment is complete. It might be interesting.

Bob

 

[Jitterbugdude]

A few years ago I did a little experiment. Into 1 jar I put heavy cased tobacco and sealed it, in another I did the same thing but with a Nitrogen flush and in a third jar I repeated but flushed it with CO2. I was looking to see if the N or CO2 would prevent mold formation. Unfortunately after 1 year in storage none of them molded. The control should have molded but it did not. It was pretty wet and sealed. So the results were inconclusive. I didn't think to smoke the stuff. I threw it away when I needed some jars this past spring to sprout some tobacco.

 

[FALaholic]

So the results were inconclusive. I didn't think to smoke the stuff. I threw it away when I needed some jars this past spring to sprout some tobacco.

Noooes. Experiment incomplete. No way to know the end results. Could be the bacca went to poo, or it could have turned to something very favorable. Only one way to find out. Must repeat .

 

[workhorse_01]

I hang mine in the barn in a feed sack and it's ok. If you take some 6 month old Copenhagen that is very dry and add moisture back to it, it will swell back up. The dried out powder is the size it was when USST first hydrated it. The smell of the dried out powder changes because the ammonium carbonate evaporates.

 

[FALaholic]

I hang mine in the barn in a feed sack and it's ok. If you take some 6 month old Copenhagen that is very dry and add moisture back to it, it will swell back up. The dried out powder is the size it was when USST first hydrated it. The smell of the dried out powder changes because the ammonium carbonate evaporates.

Nominated for best response.

Here's your star

 

[Knucklehead]

is that a moisture absorbent packet or is it a packet that takes out moisture and oxygen to preserve freshness? how would tobacco age in a container that was filled with c02 before closing it? some things are stored with a oxygen absorber to help them last longer. what do you think would happen to tobacco in an oxygen starved enviroment? would it help to keep bad things from growing like when you ferment maize and malted barley with an airlock on the fermenter so it keeps it from spoiling?

Where would we be if the first guy hadn't wondered "what if" he put a crock pot inside a refrigerator with his tobacco? Give it a shot and see what happens, it would be an interesting experiment. You've certainly gotten me curious.

 

[squeezyjohn]

FALaholic ... There is a reason that dip, snus and all moist tobacco products have a shelf life. It's partly due to the danger of mould growing, but also due to the fact that certain chemicals are developed over time called TSNAs and these are the things that can give you mouth cancer if you use the stuff all the time.

Of course if you're not bothered about that sort of thing then you can keep it as long as you like ... but I would suggest keeping the tobacco as milled tobacco flour in a very dry condition (tobacco flour takes up very little room compared to whole leaf) and then making up batches throughout the year if you're making dip/snus. That way it will be nice and fresh and worry free. I know that prepared snus can be kept in the freezer for several years if sealed well and it comes out fresh as a daisy!

 

[workhorse_01]

I read that the TSNA's were brought in when the snuff was originally Fire Cured. The smoke from the fire was supposed to be the problem.

FALaholic ... There is a reason that dip, snus and all moist tobacco products have a shelf life. It's partly due to the danger of mould growing, but also due to the fact that certain chemicals are developed over time called TSNAs and these are the things that can give you mouth cancer if you use the stuff all the time.

Of course if you're not bothered about that sort of thing then you can keep it as long as you like ... but I would suggest keeping the tobacco as milled tobacco flour in a very dry condition (tobacco flour takes up very little room compared to whole leaf) and then making up batches throughout the year if you're making dip/snus. That way it will be nice and fresh and worry free. I know that prepared snus can be kept in the freezer for several years if sealed well and it comes out fresh as a daisy!

 

[workhorse_01]

Freshness is the reason that Copenhagen has ammonium carbonate in it. Ammonium carbonate is bakers ammonia like your grandmother used in the cookies to make them crisp. I've had some in a mason jar on the counter for three weeks, and it only seems to get better. It's nice and salty and really has a kick.

 

[squeezyjohn]

No, ammonium carbonate is an alkali used to release the nicotine from the tobacco faster than it naturally does when dipping. Other alkalis used are Potash ( potassium carbonate) or washing soda (sodium carbonate). And I'll check on the TSNA scientific paper I got this from - but I'm pretty sure that it comes not only from fire curing but also fermentation. Lowest TSNA tobacco is always air cured or sun cured.

With these alkalis present, the tobacco can still lose it's freshness and over time stored at room temperature the alkalinity drops as the reaction continues in the dip - and that results in a steady decline in the strength of it

I think it's really important to treat tobacco designed for putting in your mouth exactly the same as you would with food. So the same preservation methods apply. Freezing, drying, canning I suppose, preserving with salt or alcohol or pickling in vinegar ... Well it's obvious some of those things would make a lousy dip ... But they would all check the growth of microbes that could be harmful.

if you're just smoking it - very few of those concerns remain.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Raising the pH will also inhibit mold growth so adding something like ammonium carbonate will not only increase the nicotine absorption but will maintain the tobacca as "fresh" since it inhibits it spoiling from microbes.

None of the chew I make requires refridgeration. It's all in the ingredients. Cinnamon inhibits bacterial growth as well as xylitol and glycerol. Cocoa does too, it does so by raising the pH. Wintergreen has no effect on mold growth but it sure tastes good!

BTW, TSNA's are temperature dependent. The lower you can cure your tobacco the lower your TSNAs will be. Industry has gotten around this by growing low convertor tobacco. It is not a problem for most of us because we do not flue cure.. with the exception of some of the guys like Amax, B. Thumb, Leverhead et al.

 

[squeezyjohn]

Raising the pH will also inhibit mold growth so adding something like ammonium carbonate will not only increase the nicotine absorption but will maintain the tobacca as "fresh" since it inhibits it spoiling from microbes.

That is true to some extent - but from my experience with home-made snus, which generally has a higher pH value than dip recipes call for, it will still mould if left at room temperature. Potentially some of the other ingredients will help keep the moulds and bacteria out too as you say ... I would imagine that dip that uses a lot of whisky or similar strength spirit would have far superior keeping qualities to one that doesn't.

Most of the studies on health implications of Swedish snus focus on the TSNA levels in the product - and the levels are tightly regulated by the industry. A mixture of high temperature steam pasteurisation and regulated chilling of the product at refrigerator temperatures throughout the chain of supply have ensured that it's one of the safest types of oral tobacco you can use. While home-made techniques can never be quite so tightly controlled and steam pasteurisation not possible without factory type machinery - I feel it important to try and make my own made products as safe as possible.

I have to admit that snus is my only reference point - and I only occasionally get dip from across the pond as it's quite a different experience that's fun to try now and again! But I suspect the underlying principles are similar.

I too use xylitol for sweetness along with liquorice root which I boil up in to a concentrated extract containing a sweetening compound called glycyrrhizin - as neither can cause tooth decay they are a perfect sweetener for oral tobacco. Both also have antimicrobial properties.

 

[Southern Planter]

I only have one suitable bent in the barn, and this year it will be filled to the gizzard. If I'm to age it, and have room for next years crop, I'm thinking of building cedar boxes to put the stripped tobacco in to age. Any thoughts?