AmaxB
Well-Known Member
For a Flue Cure Chamber we need to understand what is needed for it to work.
At the start before anything is done, made, bought, or assembled you should ask yourself how much tobacco will I grow. This will dictate how big your chamber should be. You should also keep in mind it will take 5 to 8 days to flue cure a load of tobacco.
You grow enough tobacco for 6 loads it will take a month and a half to flue cure. Will you have enough time? From the leaf being ripe enough, to over ripe, and your first frost date.
A single row of 27 tobacco plants if they grow well will fill a 45 cubic foot chamber.
A chamber:
Box if you will, this can be a refrigerator, freezer, commercial cooler, one you build, anything that will hold heat and humidity. When not going above 170F things catching fire or melting is not a big concern. But you should always keep the possibility of this occurring in mind. (SAFTY FIRST)
All cracks and openings must be sealed a Urethane type caulk is an excellent choice for this.
My personal feeling - It is best to build your chamber from scratch. Flat walls, floor, and ceiling are optimal.
The finish of the ceiling and walls should be of such material as to not promote condensation build up leading to water drips and runs. Smooth surfaces & Cold spots will permit this. The problem of condensation build up can lead to damaged tobacco.
Hardy Fiber Board is a great material that will help in solving the problem of condensation, in addition it well make the chamber more fire resistant, add insulating value and a 1 inch grid (a grid is on the face of every board) allowing for easy installation of supports for hanging tobacco. If you use this material after installing it all cracks and screw heads should be sealed and a few coats of a Urethane oil based paint should be applied.
The fiber board will leach moisture.
A Blower Fan and closed loop air system
A chamber of 45 cubic feet - The capacity of the fan needs to be considered, you must have sufficient air flow through the leaf to cure it. It is better to have a fan that may move to much air as opposed to not enough.
If too much a dimmer switch can be used to slow the fan down but if the fan cannot move enough air to start with you will need to buy another fan and possibly rework your air system to accommodate it.
Another consideration when choosing a fan is mounting it. For these reasons I recommend this fan.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Inch-Squi...581?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1823b3a5
The fan has 4" collars to attach to 4" duct pipe.
A Closed Loop Air System is nothing more than air recirculation through the chamber. This can be accomplished many different ways. In my air system I will use four 4" PVC Couplers, a few feet of 4" PVC pipe, two elbows, one flat faced end cap, two PVC TEEs, and some 4" metal duct pipe plus 4" duct coupler fittings. I will also have two 4" blast gates and one homemade plunger gate. I will also be using a heat box for my heat source and ceramic heat emitters to create the heat within the heat box.
I am using the PVC in this air system to reduce leakage of humidity in the air and it is easier to work with than duct pipe. In addition if for venting and wanting to do it manually it is not a problem to install PVC Ball Valves.
All seams, joints, screw heads, should be sealed to prevent leakage
Photos
.
.
Control of Heat
I like a PID for this and I need to note that ramping of the heat automatically is not needed. It can be worked around you simply need to learn how to work with a chamber. It should not be over looked that TIME is needed for the chamber to reach temperature settings. This is not instant and can take an hour or hours.
If you build a chamber keep in mind when loaded with tobacco it takes time for the chamber to catch up with temperature settings and humidity follows temperature. I have 45 cubic feet interior that is a lot of mass to heat when half full or full of plant matter. If I increase my temp 4F it can take a few hours to get there. So in theory I could increase 4F every 3 hours but I will not see an impact on temp climb over a few minutes, but instead a slow gradual climb over the three hours. If I were to increase 10F the effect is the same and will take more time. So in practice I can increase temp 5F every 6 hours going from 90F to 100F (yellowing) and operate with vents closed keeping a 2F difference between the Dry/Wet Bulbs (temp and humidity will stay pretty much in parallel. So the 1st 12 of a 24 hour period I slowly and steadily climb to 100F the second 12 of a 24 hour period I Dwell (this is the first half of a 48 hour yellowing phase). The second half of the 48 hours I would from 98F to 105F as an example in the same manner as the first.
In short it is practical to use only a temperature control (on / off) however you do want a tight tolerance. Plus Minus 1 or 2F for this reason I would use a PID in addition it can be wired to operate most any device. A PID used this way is not difficult to master and run.
This one would work just fine and comes with A Solid State Relay (an SSR acts as switch to turn the heat device on/off). It also comes with a K type thermal couple (sensor) which can be mounted in the side of the heat box or a location that would allow it to sense the heat output of a heat device.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-Displa...929?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a214324f1
Photo Wiring a normal type PID Temperature Controller
.
The SSR is 25 AMPS and should be enough for most heat devices that we might use to heat a chamber.
My Heat Box
.
.
.
.
Thermal Couple Heat Sensor bottom corner of this photo
.
Control of Humidity
You may get away without this control if you opt to vent manually.
If you are going to go the Automatic Route I suggest this controller simply because I know it works well and is easy to wire and use. It has an internal Relay switch so power to operate vents comes from it directly. It also comes with sensor.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-16-DIN-Hu...142?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebf0aaf6e
The Sensor should be located in the lower part of the top 1 third center of the chamber.
I hang mine from the duct that is center of the ceiling in my chamber.
To control the vents automatically via the Humidity PID
You can use one vent the one located on the down side of the blower. But I feel two are better because you don't have air trying to get in fighting air trying to get out. I used a cheaper solenoid (two of them) to begin with and had problems with them burning up. I recently had one burn up and needed to replace it. I upgraded to a better one it has rails that keep the pull bar moving in and out so it seats like it should. Thus it should not burn up for a long time. Plus it is twice as big meaning it need not work hard. here is a link to it.
http://www.drillspot.com/products/44112/Dormeyer_3000-M-1_Laminated_Solenoid
Wiring Photo
.
A note on the blast gates they do allow leakage with the chamber we want to have as little leakage as possible. You can get away with one on the fresh air in side of the system. But if you use one on the exhaust side you will likely need to replace it due to humidity loss. For this reason I would recommend using two of my homemade plunger type gates. Unless you can find something that will seal 100% to use for venting.
Here are two videos on the plunger gate one is about parts and how I did it, the other shows the gate assembled ready to be put in place. I simply mounted it to a piece of 2"x2" wood using plumbers strapping. Then mounted that to the top of my chamber.
The Videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfF5qk87VuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6hlXXvLH3c
Do not use the picture frame cable it will not hold up. You could use small chain or a heavy weight fishing line if you wanted as a connection from the plunger shaft to the solenoid pull bar. You can also drill a through hole for this connection linkage as opposed to what I did.
This Video shows the Plunger Gate installed and working you can see how it was mounted and how it works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wyKTwEKXDM#t=43
Ignore the PC part you don't need it!
Blast Gate inside the Chamber
You will want to place a Blast Gate inside your chamber it is helpful to control air flow as well as humidity.
A good video showing the interior Blast Gate as well as other upgrades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izc1utv8ypI#t=60
Other means of monitoring temperature
If Like me you use a heat box located outside of the chamber, you might want to know what interior temperatures are at top and bottom of your chamber. This can be done with a multi-meter and 2 K type thermal couples. Locate the sensors (thermal couples where you want them - you need to drill holes in the chamber walls so you can do this inserting the sensors). Than simply plug one of them into the multi-meter to take a reading. I have this but don't really use it much.
Humidity & Temperature controls
The PIDs or other forms of control you might use are just that controls. They do tell you how hot or wet things are. But are highly dependent on sensor location. For this reason I STRONGLY suggest using a Dry/Wet Bulb with your configuration.
Here is a link on how to make one.
http://wholeleaftobaccollc.com/foru...mometer-Set-Up-on-the-CHEAP&p=49765#post49765
In the how to I use a glass bottle, in all honesty any kind of reservoir that will hold water and not influence
the thermometers by it's size or location will work.
A link to the other thread with photos of my box build (If I were to build another would it be different yes, but that will need to be in another thread - another time).
http://wholeleaftobaccollc.com/forum/showthread.php?2095-Curing-Chamber-from-the-box-up-My-Build
A Panel Box
Do you have to have a Panel Box for power? I think it a good idea but is it a must NO it is not.
However if using a heat box like I have with Ceramic Emitters I would have at the least a small 1 to 2 breaker box for them.
Wiring Photo
System won't allow more photos to this post
So you will see it in the next post....
If you choose to and the heat emitters are 110VAC just wire PIDs ect. the same way as the wiring for heat.
Power in can be a heavy duty extension cord
Ceramic Heat Emitters
You can call to ask question they are or were very helpful
http://wecointernational.com/Infrar...aters/Trough-Heaters/FTE-Full-Trough-Element/
Medium wave is really what you want I know they have them. I think parts of their site are being revamped.
At the start before anything is done, made, bought, or assembled you should ask yourself how much tobacco will I grow. This will dictate how big your chamber should be. You should also keep in mind it will take 5 to 8 days to flue cure a load of tobacco.
You grow enough tobacco for 6 loads it will take a month and a half to flue cure. Will you have enough time? From the leaf being ripe enough, to over ripe, and your first frost date.
A single row of 27 tobacco plants if they grow well will fill a 45 cubic foot chamber.
A chamber:
Box if you will, this can be a refrigerator, freezer, commercial cooler, one you build, anything that will hold heat and humidity. When not going above 170F things catching fire or melting is not a big concern. But you should always keep the possibility of this occurring in mind. (SAFTY FIRST)
All cracks and openings must be sealed a Urethane type caulk is an excellent choice for this.
My personal feeling - It is best to build your chamber from scratch. Flat walls, floor, and ceiling are optimal.
The finish of the ceiling and walls should be of such material as to not promote condensation build up leading to water drips and runs. Smooth surfaces & Cold spots will permit this. The problem of condensation build up can lead to damaged tobacco.
Hardy Fiber Board is a great material that will help in solving the problem of condensation, in addition it well make the chamber more fire resistant, add insulating value and a 1 inch grid (a grid is on the face of every board) allowing for easy installation of supports for hanging tobacco. If you use this material after installing it all cracks and screw heads should be sealed and a few coats of a Urethane oil based paint should be applied.
The fiber board will leach moisture.
A Blower Fan and closed loop air system
A chamber of 45 cubic feet - The capacity of the fan needs to be considered, you must have sufficient air flow through the leaf to cure it. It is better to have a fan that may move to much air as opposed to not enough.
If too much a dimmer switch can be used to slow the fan down but if the fan cannot move enough air to start with you will need to buy another fan and possibly rework your air system to accommodate it.
Another consideration when choosing a fan is mounting it. For these reasons I recommend this fan.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Inch-Squi...581?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1823b3a5
The fan has 4" collars to attach to 4" duct pipe.
A Closed Loop Air System is nothing more than air recirculation through the chamber. This can be accomplished many different ways. In my air system I will use four 4" PVC Couplers, a few feet of 4" PVC pipe, two elbows, one flat faced end cap, two PVC TEEs, and some 4" metal duct pipe plus 4" duct coupler fittings. I will also have two 4" blast gates and one homemade plunger gate. I will also be using a heat box for my heat source and ceramic heat emitters to create the heat within the heat box.
I am using the PVC in this air system to reduce leakage of humidity in the air and it is easier to work with than duct pipe. In addition if for venting and wanting to do it manually it is not a problem to install PVC Ball Valves.
All seams, joints, screw heads, should be sealed to prevent leakage
Photos
.
.
Control of Heat
I like a PID for this and I need to note that ramping of the heat automatically is not needed. It can be worked around you simply need to learn how to work with a chamber. It should not be over looked that TIME is needed for the chamber to reach temperature settings. This is not instant and can take an hour or hours.
If you build a chamber keep in mind when loaded with tobacco it takes time for the chamber to catch up with temperature settings and humidity follows temperature. I have 45 cubic feet interior that is a lot of mass to heat when half full or full of plant matter. If I increase my temp 4F it can take a few hours to get there. So in theory I could increase 4F every 3 hours but I will not see an impact on temp climb over a few minutes, but instead a slow gradual climb over the three hours. If I were to increase 10F the effect is the same and will take more time. So in practice I can increase temp 5F every 6 hours going from 90F to 100F (yellowing) and operate with vents closed keeping a 2F difference between the Dry/Wet Bulbs (temp and humidity will stay pretty much in parallel. So the 1st 12 of a 24 hour period I slowly and steadily climb to 100F the second 12 of a 24 hour period I Dwell (this is the first half of a 48 hour yellowing phase). The second half of the 48 hours I would from 98F to 105F as an example in the same manner as the first.
In short it is practical to use only a temperature control (on / off) however you do want a tight tolerance. Plus Minus 1 or 2F for this reason I would use a PID in addition it can be wired to operate most any device. A PID used this way is not difficult to master and run.
This one would work just fine and comes with A Solid State Relay (an SSR acts as switch to turn the heat device on/off). It also comes with a K type thermal couple (sensor) which can be mounted in the side of the heat box or a location that would allow it to sense the heat output of a heat device.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-Displa...929?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a214324f1
Photo Wiring a normal type PID Temperature Controller
.
The SSR is 25 AMPS and should be enough for most heat devices that we might use to heat a chamber.
My Heat Box
.
...
Thermal Couple Heat Sensor bottom corner of this photo
.Control of Humidity
You may get away without this control if you opt to vent manually.
If you are going to go the Automatic Route I suggest this controller simply because I know it works well and is easy to wire and use. It has an internal Relay switch so power to operate vents comes from it directly. It also comes with sensor.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-16-DIN-Hu...142?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebf0aaf6e
The Sensor should be located in the lower part of the top 1 third center of the chamber.
I hang mine from the duct that is center of the ceiling in my chamber.
To control the vents automatically via the Humidity PID
You can use one vent the one located on the down side of the blower. But I feel two are better because you don't have air trying to get in fighting air trying to get out. I used a cheaper solenoid (two of them) to begin with and had problems with them burning up. I recently had one burn up and needed to replace it. I upgraded to a better one it has rails that keep the pull bar moving in and out so it seats like it should. Thus it should not burn up for a long time. Plus it is twice as big meaning it need not work hard. here is a link to it.
http://www.drillspot.com/products/44112/Dormeyer_3000-M-1_Laminated_Solenoid
Wiring Photo
.
A note on the blast gates they do allow leakage with the chamber we want to have as little leakage as possible. You can get away with one on the fresh air in side of the system. But if you use one on the exhaust side you will likely need to replace it due to humidity loss. For this reason I would recommend using two of my homemade plunger type gates. Unless you can find something that will seal 100% to use for venting.
Here are two videos on the plunger gate one is about parts and how I did it, the other shows the gate assembled ready to be put in place. I simply mounted it to a piece of 2"x2" wood using plumbers strapping. Then mounted that to the top of my chamber.
The Videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfF5qk87VuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6hlXXvLH3c
Do not use the picture frame cable it will not hold up. You could use small chain or a heavy weight fishing line if you wanted as a connection from the plunger shaft to the solenoid pull bar. You can also drill a through hole for this connection linkage as opposed to what I did.
This Video shows the Plunger Gate installed and working you can see how it was mounted and how it works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wyKTwEKXDM#t=43
Ignore the PC part you don't need it!
Blast Gate inside the Chamber
You will want to place a Blast Gate inside your chamber it is helpful to control air flow as well as humidity.
A good video showing the interior Blast Gate as well as other upgrades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izc1utv8ypI#t=60
Other means of monitoring temperature
If Like me you use a heat box located outside of the chamber, you might want to know what interior temperatures are at top and bottom of your chamber. This can be done with a multi-meter and 2 K type thermal couples. Locate the sensors (thermal couples where you want them - you need to drill holes in the chamber walls so you can do this inserting the sensors). Than simply plug one of them into the multi-meter to take a reading. I have this but don't really use it much.
Humidity & Temperature controls
The PIDs or other forms of control you might use are just that controls. They do tell you how hot or wet things are. But are highly dependent on sensor location. For this reason I STRONGLY suggest using a Dry/Wet Bulb with your configuration.
Here is a link on how to make one.
http://wholeleaftobaccollc.com/foru...mometer-Set-Up-on-the-CHEAP&p=49765#post49765
In the how to I use a glass bottle, in all honesty any kind of reservoir that will hold water and not influence
the thermometers by it's size or location will work.
A link to the other thread with photos of my box build (If I were to build another would it be different yes, but that will need to be in another thread - another time).
http://wholeleaftobaccollc.com/forum/showthread.php?2095-Curing-Chamber-from-the-box-up-My-Build
A Panel Box
Do you have to have a Panel Box for power? I think it a good idea but is it a must NO it is not.
However if using a heat box like I have with Ceramic Emitters I would have at the least a small 1 to 2 breaker box for them.
Wiring Photo
System won't allow more photos to this post
So you will see it in the next post....
If you choose to and the heat emitters are 110VAC just wire PIDs ect. the same way as the wiring for heat.
Power in can be a heavy duty extension cord
Ceramic Heat Emitters
You can call to ask question they are or were very helpful
http://wecointernational.com/Infrar...aters/Trough-Heaters/FTE-Full-Trough-Element/
Medium wave is really what you want I know they have them. I think parts of their site are being revamped.
