Poor burning cigars

[ne3go]

Or better: Non-burning cigars

Last year tried to make my own cigars by Maryland tobacco that had grow. After a good color cure and a -not so full- fermentation, my cigars didn't burn!
This year avoid chloride in water and fertilization and have 10 varieties, to raise my chances.
My leaves are 2 weeks inside the kiln, so thought to give a try see how well they burn.
I also tried a month ago, to make a cigar of mud-lugs, really dry & brown leaves sitting on dirt for weeks.
The result is the same as last year...The inside of the cigar starts burning, but the binder-wrapper doesn't burn but getting black like charcoal.....
Thought that moister is high in outer leaves, so let them in my humidor for a week. Still not burning....
I also tried last years cigars, after spending a year in my humidor, still not burning...

I see all you guys, just roll couple of leaves after just curing and smoke a cigar, and get dissapointed. What are my mistakes?

-Does the rolling effects the burning so dramatically? The wrapper, no matter how good you apply it, must burn, right? I don't have problem with draw, seems that the smoke can move inside the cigar...

-Must the fermentation fully complete? Or even the leaves have to age a few months to smoke?

-Perhaps is my soil that gives leaves some components that make them unburnable...

The only way i had to test the burning, is trying to burn a single flat leaf. I tried that with a factory cigar for comparison. I unfold it and burn every single leaf. The burn started and spread to a great amount of the leaf.
In my leaves, the burn just stops immediatelly! Have any of you who make descent cigars, tried to burn a single leaf, to see the results?

Didn't take any photos from the burning test, next time i'll put photos, at least of my non-burning leaves.

 

[Knucklehead]

That's strange. Bob recommends filler in low case but not crumbly, binder in medium case and wrapper in high case. He smokes them right after rolling, home grown or purchased, wet wrapper and all. I have so far purchased all my cigar leaf from Don and roll in the recommended case by Bob with no problems. I let mine rest and dry a little in the humidor before smoking. I'm interested in seeing what the experts come up with for your problem. Hang in there, I'm sure the cavalry is on the way.

 

[MarcL]

Μου αρέσει πάντα τα πούρα μου με την ηλικία για αρκετές εβδομάδες πριν από το κάπνισμα.

(I always like my cigars to age for several weeks before smoking.)

 

[ne3go]

Knucks thanks, i'm holding the fort here, and waiting!

MarcL nice greeks! But, have you ever light them unaged?

 

[DGBAMA]

I have not made many but the only no-burn issue ihave had is if my wrapper/binder is too thick/too many layers. Do you use an"adhesive" on the wrapper? If so, what type, this could have an effect.

 

[deluxestogie]

Knucks describes the moisture state of the cigar components. The filler needs to be dry enough to crack, but not crumble. DGBAMA also brings up a common problem--application of too much glue. (I usually use none.)

I have found few tobacco varieties that are adequately kilned in less than 4 weeks.

Your burn test suggests that the leaf itself is the problem. The aging (and kilning) of the leaf eliminates carbohydrates and albuminous proteins that inhibit burning. This is a serious problem in some varieties (some burleys, for example), and not a problem in others. Some varieties require several months of aging after a month of kilning, before they burn well. Certain of my Oriental varieties (notoriously, Xanthi Yaka) never burn well alone.

As you note, too much chloride will inhibit burning. Too little nitrogen may also lead to poor burning.

A standard burn test is performed by touching the lit end of a cigar or cigarette to the middle of the lamina of a segment of leaf, rather than by using a lighter. Try this on some commercial leaf, then use it on your own leaf in various stages of aging and moisture content.

Bob

 

[ne3go]

DGBAMA, I use a touch of guar-gum at the end of the rolling wrapper. Its the side that goes to mouth, so doesn't effect the burning.

Bob, I was watering with water from well. This water has a lot of salt (as my crockpot photo in growblog suggests!) but no chloride.I fertilize them with composted manure (mainly) and a non-chloride fertilizer. The growth and the size of the leaves wasn't very big, don't know if that's mean more nitrogen needed.As for the case of leaves, i'm always careful with binder-wrapper-filler.
Thanks for the test, didn't knew that and sure i'll try it before attempting any cigar rolling.
African red, Havana,Izmir,Walkers Broadleaf,Virginia, Tenessee, Perique, Maryland are some varieties i had. Is any of them capable of burning after 2 weeks of kilning, to try the test?

Otherwise i have to wait for months to see if my effort is end up to a trash....I think my island's soil doesn't like tobacco growing....And i'm a little dissapointed.

 

[Knucklehead]

Patience Grasshopper. (from Kung Fu TV series lol) If they've only been kilned for two weeks, I would suspect that they need more kilning plus some air aging after kilning. Bob told me awhile back that some cigar varieties require up to three years of just natural aging, so I'm going to build a kiln this winter so I can smoke my cigar varieties sooner than three years. Give it a month of kilning and try Bob's burn test. Then start air aging and checking with the burn test every so often and see what you have.

 

[ne3go]

Last year's cigars aged for a year in my humidor, plus plenty of leaves hanging for a year in my garage, and still don't burn (even if the city water had chloride or had semi-fermented).So i don't have a lot of hope for this year.

I suspect that the main problem is the soil:
-Had trouble in growing - my plants never grow too high, or with big & clean leaves. Any variety.
-Had trouble in curing - never had any yellow leaf before brown like photos of any other grower, even with RH and temperature at right level!
-And as it looks trouble in kilning - never get any ammonia smell after 2 weeks.

I'll wait and wait...but if i don't get any smokable cigars this year, i doubt i could find courage to grow tobacco again.

 

[deluxestogie]

Can you obtain a soil analysis? That might provide a clear answer.

Bob

 

[MarcL]

MarcL nice greeks! But, have you ever light them unaged?

Ναι έχω. Και, υπάρχει συνήθως καίγονται προβλήματα για μένα.
Από ό, τι καταλαβαίνω κατά την ανάπτυξη ενός μείγμα για ένα πούρο, που είναι πώς γίνεται, αλλά είναι δύσκολο να καταλάβω το τελικό αποτέλεσμα.

Ζείτε ενδοχώρα ή σε ένα νησί; Και αν σε ένα νησί που το ένα.
Απλώς με κάνει να πιστεύω ότι το πρόβλημά σας είναι ένας επιστημονικός όρος. Όπως είπες το έδαφος ίσως.
Δεν αναπτύσσονται τόσο πολύ, ώστε, δεν ξέρω.

(Yes I have. And, there is typically burn problems for me.
From what I understand when creating a mix for a cigar that is how it is done, but it's hard to figure out the final result.

You live inland or on an island? And if on an island one.
It just makes me think that your problem is a scientific term. Like you said the ground maybe.
Not grow so much that I do not know.)

 

[Matty]

I would suspect the soil as well. Unripe leaf gives similar problems in curing although that might not be your problem. If you can't get a soil analysis you could always try growing a few plants in pots with commercial soil. This was my first year growing and have already sampled some of each variety, they all burn. Perhaps it is the variety as some of the other guys mentioned but I would suspect the soil more.

 

[ne3go]

MarcL i leave in Santorini island. Windy place with dry and poor sandy soil.
Bob its possible to do a soil analysis, although i think this is something that only professional farmers should do.
Maybe the solution is to grow only in pots, as Matty said.

 

[MarcL]

Λέγεται ότι το χώμα σας είναι ιδιαίτερα ηφαιστειακή τέφρα που νόμιζα ότι ήταν μερικά από τα καλύτερα είδη των εδαφών για τον καπνό.
Η ανάλυση του εδάφους θα ήταν ωραίο να ξέρουν, αλλά 5 γαλόνι δοχεία Matty's θα μπορούσε να είναι ο τρόπος για να το κάνουμε.
Όπως είπα δεν είμαι ένα μεγάλο μέρος ενός καλλιεργητή έτσι δεν ξέρω.

Σκέψη για έγκαυμα προβλήματά σας, τελευταία πεπερασμένη I έλασης ένα πούρο και το άφησε στο σαλόνι μου, όπου ήταν 60% υγρασία. Έχω καπνίσει ότι αυτό το βράδυ και είχα κάποια προβλήματα έγκαυμα. Έπρεπε να καθαριστεί έξω πιο συχνά από το συνηθισμένο, και έπρεπε να το ξανανάψει δύο φορές.

(It is said that your soil is very tuff that I thought were some of the best types of soil for tobacco.
The analysis of soil would be nice to know but five gallon containers Matty's might be the way to do it .
As I said I'm not much of a farmer so I do not know .

Thinking about burn your problems , last nite I rolled a cigar and left it in my living room , which was 60 % humidity . I smoked it that night and I had some problems burn. Had to be cleaned out more often than usual, and had to relight twice.)

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Your poor burning seems to indicate that you have too much Chloride in your soil. I would suspect this to be true since you live on an island and your soil probably receives a lot of chloride from the sea borne air.

 

[Ben Brand]

Your poor burning seems to indicate that you have too much Chloride in your soil. I would suspect this to be true since you live on an island and your soil probably receives a lot of chloride from the sea borne air.

I have the same problem, but only with Fl Sumatra, and worse is the top 5-6 leaves. My other varieties are fine. I have a very sandy soil and must realy put down a lot of fertiliser to produce nice tobacco.
Good luck.
Ben

 

[ne3go]

Your poor burning seems to indicate that you have too much Chloride in your soil. I would suspect this to be true since you live on an island and your soil probably receives a lot of chloride from the sea borne air.

Sea has chloride? Didn't know that.

MarcL my island its volcanic but the soil is poor to nutricians.

Is there any way to "clean" the leaves from chloride? Leave them more to kiln perhaps...?

 

[workhorse_01]

Do your leaves have salt deposited on them? When I lived in SW Florida we had major problems with salt erosion on beach air conditioning units. The bottom would fall out after 3.5 yrs. 25 miles west no problem the units would last 20 yrs. I would taste the dried leaves to see if the salt air has coated them. If it has just wash the leaves, bring them back in to proper case and roll a new one.

Since sodium chloride (salt) is one of the principle extinguishing ingredients in fire extinguishers, it’s no wonder why it made it on the list. By nature, salt dissipates heat and minimizes oxygen when applied to a fire. Table salt can be used to extinguish grease fires that occur on the stove or in the oven. Fire extinguishers that have salt in it are best used on Class D fires in combustible metals, such as potassium, sodium and aluminum.

 

[deluxestogie]

If you know anyone involved in the vineyards of Santorini, perhaps you could have a look at their soil analysis reports.

Bob

 

[FmGrowit]

Sorry, but one of the rules for posting is to post in English. It serves very few people to post in foreign languages...not to mention how confusing it would be to post in multiple foreign languages in the same thread.


Thank you for your cooperation.