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Daniels 2012 grow log

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Daniel

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I know it is still 2011 but I consider anything done after harvest that happens to the garden to part of the next year. The garden doesn't read the calendar no matter how many I leave laying around.

Next year it looks like our garden location will be the same as last year. I will be adding as many more buckets as I can. Hopefully around 50 or so.

I am happy with how MCY and YTB didi this year but all of our varieties have yet to pass a taste test. I know I will give YTB another shot and probably stalk harvest it next year rather than prime it.

About two weeks ago we dumped all the dirt form the buckets into a large pile and covered it with plastic for the winter. The garden is put to bed so to speak.

We still have some tobacco color curing. once it is all cured we will de rib it and bring it back to case for aging. I want to pile everything we have in the kiln at once so we only have the expense of running the kiln once. Some of our tobacco may be 6 months old by then so it may age all on it's own without the need of the kiln.

We did not add any amendments to the pile of dirt but do have a compost pile going. So far the plan is to just add fresh compost in the spring as we mix the dirt to go back in the buckets.

As some of the members here are aware. this past summer tobacco growing went from a garden to an idea of getting ourselves on a homestead by July 1st of 2013. SO far tons of ideas that we have to try out and learn about. a Rocket Mass wood heater is next on our list. as well as building structures from COB. Not really tobacco related but I still want to have the entire adventure recorded some where. I spent the last two weeks building a new top bar bee hive as well. I am not making much progress on the issue of affordable energy production. not on the scale we are going to want it. I am looking for a system that will produce 80 Kwh per day. doing it ourselves is looking like it will cost 30k. time for a second job I guess.

anyway next year is under way in that the planning is already getting done. I will not likely post a ot here until I start planting seed though. I shoudl log any decisions about varieties for next year.

I encourage anyone to add comments as to varieties to try for cigarettes as well as what we could be doing for the soil over the winter.
I am also looking for more space to grow in so plans may change drastically if I find a quarter aces somewhere.
 

BigBonner

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Daniel

I want to make a comment here that may help some long term growers. " Field rotation " . If you raise tobacco in the same soil for more than two years there is a chance of plant disease building up that could effect tobacco in different ways .We rotate tobacco every two years to help with diseases .
Plant Tobacco two years , let the soil rest two years or longer . We replant with clover or alfalfa to help build up the soil.
 

dkh2

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I use worm castings for my growing area's it replenishes all kinds of enzymes and nutrients.
I have a home made worm bin and feed my worms all kinds of stuff
They really like cow manure they like horse manure too but horses leave a lot of undigested
hay in there manure that isn't decomposed enough for the worms to eat.

bCHeK.jpg


KZNg8.jpg
 

Daniel

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dkh2, I saw you post about your worm box on HTGT. I wanted to get one started this summer but it is one of the projects that slipped by. thanks for re posting about it it got it back on my to do list.
 

Daniel

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well shucks. I had written and thought I posted a message in this thread this morning. Guess I forgot to click post after I was done. That has been happening a lot lately. Sort of a good thing though because one day has made a big change. This morning I was talking About trying to grow 260 plants this year in 5 gallon buckets. This afternoon I finally found someone that will let us grow tobacco on their property. Finally after nearly a year of looking. This landowner has 40 acres of sandy loam. We will only need about 26,000 sq ft of it or about two thirds of a football field. We are now looking at trying to grow a three year supply of tobacco or 1650 plants. We will also be switching to more of a traditional method of growing rather than a day by day intensive care of them. I plan to water with a drip system. I had a link to a great site for for irrigation parts but lost it when my old computer died. I can't remember the name of the place but I do remember they had great prices.
Also does anyone have a source for a free and easy lay out program. I want a lay out that is 13 double rows plants spaced at 3 feet on center and the double row offset by 18 inches. a 3 foot path and then another double row. rows are 64 plants long making the entire field 192 feet long and 134 feet wide. this will require over 2500 feet of drip line and 1651 emitters to water all the plants. I am excited but really worried about time that this will require. Does anyone have any time estimates for planting by hand. I know we are going to have to get efficient and really work to keep it under a week total planting time.

Anyway I know the bulk of what we are going to grow will be MCY and YTB. But we have a lot of room to grow test batches as well. I am once again asking for suggestions for tobacco to try out for cigarettes.

Wish us luck this is really going to be work and our budget is going to be tight.
 

LeftyRighty

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I'd recommend going with 4+ ft between your double rows, especially since you're having such long rows.
I did 3 1/2 ft the last two years, and it just wasn't enough room to effective move down the rows for weeding, spraying, suckering, etc. Am going to 4 1/2 ft this next season, my rows are only 40 ft long.

18-inch on double rows is OK for small leaf varieties (orientals), but 2+ ft is much better for large leaf types.

This is this last year's growth with 18" double rows and 3 1/2 ft between double rows:
3f7be733b9336029faa21387947eaad7.jpg
 

Daniel

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Lots of room BarG it's the time and labor that is going to kill us. This place is about 45 minutes drive from our house so we will not be able to visit it every day.

LeftyRighty, I have been worried about that. I know last year it git tight even working our buckets and we ended up having to drag them around a bit. Will not be able to do that this year. I am also concerned about wind in this area. So at least keep that in mind. But let me make sure I am getting this

As far as a row plant them 2 feet between plants even for large varieties? How much space between the rows as far as the double rows? I was planning on 3 feet, is that to wide? As far as the walkways go my drawing is showing it is actually 6 feet from where plant stalk enters the ground to the next plant stalk. Man I hope that makes since.

To put it another way I am giving each plant 3 square feet or a 3 foot by 3 foot area to grow in. assuming that no plant has leaves that reach beyond that 3 foot radius I still am leaving 3 feet between that. I didn't see it in my head earlier but this is actually making 6 feet between double rows. So now I am thinking I am getting things spread out to much.

We will need to be able to work fast when we are out there so I think lots of room between double rows is really good. But looking at your photo above I am thinking 3 feet between the double rows is to much. Man I need something to make up a drawing cause this is confusing me even.

Anyway what do you all think of double rows with 2 feet between plants and 18 inches between rows. while still keeping that 6 feet between double rows. This shortens my rows by 64 feet narrows the patch by 15 feet but still leaves 6 feet of working space between double rows. That is going to feel like a living room until the plants start getting larger.

Anyway shortening up those rows would be a huge savings so far it looks like the drip system for this is going to run about $550.

Does anyone have any idea how many 1 G.P.H. emitters you can plan to run on a drip system? I will be doing pressure and flow tests on her well when I am out there next week. but for now I am assuming 60 P.S.I. and a flow rate of 15 gallons per minute. I know the drip line I am looking at is rated at 220 gallons per hour??? I am looking at emitters that can work from 10 to 50 p.s.i. but the recommended pressure is 30. I know more than 220 gallons per hour can flow through a 1/2 inch drip line. at 15 gallons per minute that is 900 gallons per hour. this means I would have to have two zones with about 825 plants per zone. If anyone has any experience with maxing out a drip line let me know if that sounds right or am I way off. I am just guessing at this for now. with 40 acres she may have a much more serious pump than that though. If so I may bump the system up to a 1 inch drip line and get serious.
 

LeftyRighty

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the plants in my photo were at 2 ft spacing in their 18" rows.
really, really tight getting to those suckers.
I've got limited garden space. I can still get decent production with the tight spacing (growth-wise), but I know a wider aisle between the double rows will make things much easier to work. My biggest pain was just moving down the aisle. A 6 ft aisle would be heaven for me.

Sounds like you've got sufficient land to use any spacing you want, but I understand your concern with added $$$ for the drip system. Do what you gotta do !
 

Daniel

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Last year we had plants in 5 gallon buckets in patches 4 buckets wide. the buckets where pushed together as close as they go. that made plants that where about 1 foot apart in every direction in rows of 4 plants wide. So we had to reach past a plant to reach the inner one. that was a huge pain. at times you could not even tell what leaf belong to what plant. But the worse was when the plants started closing up the path. I think we had about a 3 foot path so I know what you mean by the space between. We kept backing into the plants behind us and damaging leaves.

I just did a work up on spacing the plants 2 feet apart and 18 inches between rows but keeping the 6 foot path. It will still make the plants bunched side to side but not as bad as we had last year and we can work the plant right in front of us at the edge of the row. No reaching past a plant. It reduces the drip line from 2634 feet long to 1757 feet. That is really only a savings of about $100. Same number of emitters no matter what I do.

SO far my favorite according to the drawings is to keep the plants spaced at 3 feet for a little more elbow room that wil cost me $100 but narrow the space between rows to 18 inches. Still keeping that 6 foot path.

And yes it is going to be strange going from almost no space to basically unlimited space. The drip line itself is actually cheap when compared to the emitters, fitting and all the extras. I will be kicking myself if I have to fight my way through over 1600 plants to have saved $100.

I know that last year our tobacco was saved from high winds twice by being spaced as tight as they where. I am hoping I am keeping them close enough to help hold each other up in bad winds.
 

LeftyRighty

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I know your concern with high wind damage.
This is what a 70-80mph wind did to me last June:
f36c0941b9fb71bee32ea856df060f4f.jpg


Having the double-row made it easier to get them back upright.
I put some 4 ft stakes in, down the center of the double row, ran a tie-rope between stakes, and then tied or leaned the plants to the rope or to themselves.

My soil is mostly clays - won't hold the plants when satuated with rainwater, but the roots are solidly anchored when the soil is dry. I imagine you will have a real problem with sandy soils, wet or dry.
 

Daniel

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Well we went and laid eyes on the land today. There is 40 acres out there but nearly all of it is sagebrush covered dessert. THre is a sizable area aroudn there house that has been cleared and has jsut some short grass growing. The amazing think is our planned patch will fit as drawn out with about 2 feet to spare in one single space. I could not have planned it better if I had gone out and measured it.
We gathered a soil sample and also took a small jar of dirt for a shake test. So far the shake test is not showing much. It looks to me to be almost completely a fine sand with no separation of sand and silt and the clay is a very fine layer at the top. I am to sure it would even amount to 1 percent. I will do another shake test with the soil we took as a smple as it caem from 12 incehs dep and from several locations throughout the plot.

We got a pressure test from the well of 40 PSI through a 3/4 inch supply line and a flow test of 20 gallons per minute. The land owner claims they have measured the flow at 27 gallons per minute in the past. I will design with the lower reading.

The best news is that they are fine with us using Seven as an insecticide on the tobacco so we do not need to change what we do in that regard.

We will be getting the soil analysis from the local Ag Extension office asap. So it looks like we are all systems go and we did not scare the land owner with our plans. we laid out the filed while we where there and they did not even bat an eye. In fact Kathy was talking about being able to go walk out among the plants as they grow. So even she seems a little excited to see these plants growing next to her yard. So I can let my breath out cause this last few days has had me on pins and needles that this deal would fall apart. We worked our butts off today and will being back to finish up tomorrow. We are putting in a about a 100 foot hugle bed for her and then started digging an asparagus bed that was as long or longer. She is going to garden some for us in addition to the use of the land. So it is fairly hard work for a couple of three days that is basically our rental payment.
 

Daniel

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Well with a little more reflection on what my shake test is showing. Plus a second day of being out on the land. I am thinking we have almost pure silt for 6 to 8 inches and then a very hard pan almost pure clay. If so I could mix this 50 50 with pure sand and end up with a respectable tobacco soil to about a 10 inch depth. add in a 3 inch layer of compost and I think we have a pretty good chance. I am counting on the roots spreading out rather than digging deep so I need to do as much for it in that top layer as possible.

I could buy a tiller and run it over just the rows. this would be 13 3 foot wide strips 126 feet long for a total of 4914 square feet. Yeah I know this is border line farming. This first tilling woudl be ment to pick up soem of that underlying clay and mixing it with the silt. ending up with a 60 percent silt to 40 percent clay mix and the soil tilled to 8 inches. Now this is the insane part but for now it is only a thought. I bring in 90 yards of sand. That is 9 dump truck loads at a top cost of about $300 per load. I think I can find a much cheaper way to get it done but even at a cost of $20 a yard for sand it will be $1800 and I still have to pay for a truck. I am hoping I can find sand close by and a local with a truck that wants to make 3 or 4 hundred dollars spending a day hauling it. I am thinking I can probably get the sand for around $2200. When I til that in I am thinking I end up with a 40 percent silt 40 percent sand and 20 percent clay mixture. Mix with that a 2 or 3 inch layer of compost and I am at least in the ball park of a good tobacco soil for a depth of around 12 inches or so.

Okay all that is pie in the sky I can do anything cost is no issue thinking. First of all I am in no way going to make that sort of investment in someone elses land. But it does give an idea of the direction I would like to go to help my tobacco grow better. If anyone has any suggestions on how to accomplish the same sort of improvements without having to haul in truck loads of materials I would appreciate hearing about them.

I am thinking seriously about buying a tiller. but just what I til in will be determined by what I can get at a reasonable cost. Who knows? if I look for it I might find someone that needs to get rid of 90 yards of sand and will haul it there for free just to get rid of it. If so it is game on cause i am not afraid of the work by any means.

In reality I am just trying to think ahead. I have 4 months to get anything I can done and want to take advantage of it. I need that soil analysis though. hopefully I will have it by the end of next week.

Otherwise I am focused on getting the final details of irrigation down. I am actually down to the nuts and bolts. have ran the numbers and they seem to fit for me. But I want to add them here to see if anyone with more actual experience thinks they are accurate.

I have measured the water source at 40PSI and 20 gallons per minuter or 1200 gallons per hour. I will run from that source 225 feet of 3/4 inch PVC. The source is 3/4 so it does no good to go larger than that. The run is slightly down hill so I don't expect to loose any pressure due to it. So i still plant to have 1200 gallons per minute and 40 psi at the south end of my field. The PVC will be running east to west. 13 1/2 inch drip lines will branch of this main line running south to north and each will be 126 feet long and supply 127 1/2 gallon per hour emitters each.

This is a total of 1651 1/2 gallon emitters for a total flow of 825.1 gallons per hour. installed on a total of 1638 feet of 1/2 inch drip line. those lines are fed by 225 feet of 2/4 inch PV pipe at 40 psi and a flow of 1200 gallons per hour.

I do not know what the PVC is rated at for max flow per hour but I do know that 1/2 inc drip line is rated at 240 gallons per hour at 30 psi or the recommended pressure. I know for a fact you can get better flows than that and drip line will function at well above it rated pressures. I have built many that run on 60psi I have no plans to reduce the pressure on this system it is low enough already. At any rate it looks to me like I have more than enough flow and the hoses to get it there. 13 1/2 inch lines at 240 gallons per hour each makes over 3000 gallons per hour possible. What I am wondering is if I have to worry about the pressure drop them may cause. I am not sure they will drop it at all.
 

BigBonner

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Daniel

Heres my two cents worth . In my opinion I think you need to work with the soil you have and forget about how much sand you may or may not need .
The owner was a organic farmer . See what types of vegetables that has been grown there or other places where the soil is simular . If vegies grow good so will tobacco .

Here is a couple of links to NV soil .

$2200 will buy alot of tobacco without all the work .


http://www.nv.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/soils.html


ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/NV/web/soils/landcapability3.pdf
 

Boboro

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Call your city sanation dept. Around here they give composted leaves away 2 pickup loads spred thin will help a lot. I think the heat and dry air will be more of a problem than the dirt.
 

Daniel

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Mmmmm, that is not good, not good at all. The owner is an organic "Gardener" not farmer. There are no farms in this area. 20 miles to the east they do have areas that are farmed. The owner of this property grows everything in 12 inch deep raised beds filled with top soil they had brought in. To repeat that for our tobacco would require 184 cubic yards of top soil.
Daniel

The owner was a organic farmer . See what types of vegetables that has been grown there or other places where the soil is simular . If vegies grow good so will tobacco .

Here is a couple of links to NV soil .

$2200 will buy alot of tobacco without all the work .


http://www.nv.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/soils.html


ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/NV/web/soils/landcapability3.pdf
 

FmGrowit

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Daniel, Why do you think you need sand as opposed to organic matter? It sounds like a few truck loads of good old manure would correct a lot of your situation.
 

BigBonner

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Daniel

How does the existing soil feel when you dig it up ?
Dig up some and squeeze a ball of it in your hand , then break it apart let us know how well it falls apart or doesn't fall apart .Make sure it isn't too wet or about any soil will ball up and not fall apart .
Good soil should crumble not to a fine powder but should bust apart easy .
 

Daniel

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FM, I cannot remember where but I read somewhere that the ideal soil for tobacco was 40% silt 40% sand and 20% clay. That is what I shot for last year when making soil for my buckets and it worked. So just staying with what I know.

BB, I can take a shovel and just scoop off the top 3 to 6 inches. It is a dry powdery silt that feels more like sand. So I will call it a gritty silt. then it is solid rock hard clay and rock. Volcanic rock as well as rock from erosion from the surrounding hills. This clay that is locally called hard pan will soften up when gotten wet. but as soon as it dries it hardens again.

I am not saying this is a soil with a high clay content. I don't even like calling it soil. It is clay, and it acts like clay. make a 100 lb pile of modeling clay and then try digging in it. when it is wet you have a chance. when it dries out go find some dynamite.

The top layer will form a ball when moist and break apart as you describe. I do know what you are describing. the underlying clay will just squish into shapes in your hand but not fall apart unless it is so muddy it will run between your fingers. I also no what good soil is like. As I said I don't even consider this soil. it is dirt.
 
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