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The Story of Jessica's Fantastic 2014 =)

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JessicaNicot

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Are they brasillia? After looking as some pictures you posted on a different thread I'm thinking about getting some n. rustica var. brasillia for next year. I can't believe how big those leaves are.

the ones I have in there right now are experimental breeding lines but they are brasilia derivatives with big floppy leaves.
 

JessicaNicot

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since there isn't a lot going on with the stuff in the float house for the nursery (and I haven't been out there to get any pics, but my coworkers assure me that things are coming along just fine), I figured I would give you a peak at my other projects growing up in the greenhouse.

here is a pic of my rusticas. there are 9 different varieties along this bench:
20140401_085138.jpg


this is an accession of nicotiana plumbaginifolia. its a lot smaller than I would have imagined and quick to flower. right now these first flowers seem to be a lot of 6 pointers, quite small and questionable for selfing. I did my best with the paint brush this morning but the corolla tubes are very narrow and the anthers and stigma are recessed back in there a ways.
20140401_085208.jpg


this is an accession of nicotiana quadrivalvis (so named because I believe it has a tendency to produce capsules that are 4 chambered instead of the standard 2). been having a lot of wilting issues with this one. I think the sun is too strong and I need to find some shade cloth to put up. one plant has produced an open flower so far. it had a large corolla limb but a short tube and was somewhere between lavender and light pink in color.
20140401_085228.jpg


this is my first time growing the latter two species. i'll try to get more pics as they come into flower.
 

JessicaNicot

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funny, I don't really know what size those pots are. they are just the standard size ones we use at the gh but that sounds about right because I think the clay ones are 6". We use a mix of potting soil and sand, that i think roughly comes out to about 50-50.

I had to remove several of the lower leaves off each of those rusticas because we were having difficulty getting water in the pots, so they're actually more productive than they look.
 

deluxestogie

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N. quadrivalvis was cultivated by the Hidatsa Indian tribe, and is the tobacco discussed by Buffalo Bird Woman in her diary. She also describes how, as a special treat, the elder men fried the dried blossoms in buffalo fat, then smoked them.

It's hard to imagine how they would collect enough of those blossoms to be worth the trouble.

Bob

EDIT: A number of individuals (native American and others) have inquired about obtaining seed for N. quadrivalvis.
 

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i wish i had a green house to play around in. i would have liked just sit in a chair and smell and see all the life during this long, cold and dark winter.
 

DGBAMA

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The N.Quad is much smaller than I thought, unless that is just due to the container size.
 

skychaser

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A number of individuals (native American and others) have inquired about obtaining seed for N. quadrivalvis.

I have Quadrivalvis seed. Also have lots of Clevelandii

It's hard to imagine how they would collect enough of those blossoms to be worth the trouble.

It's not so hard to imagine when you have seen them bloom.
 

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deluxestogie

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Sky,
From your photo of N. quadrivalvis, I can see why the elders considered the blossom buds better than the leaf.

Bob
 

JessicaNicot

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Sky, where did you get the seed of that Quad because it doesn't look like mine at all. I know that the species was contentious and subdivided for a number of years (some were called Bigelovii), but the flowers on yours look more like the Megalosiphon or Suaveolens I grew two years ago.

this is a crappy pic of Suaveolens and a close up of its flowers. I thought they were pretty because they have the "sweetheart" shaped lobes instead of being round or pointed.
2012-10-16 09.46.41.jpg2012-10-16 09.50.44.jpg

these are the flowers of Megalosiphon ("big straw" for its long corolla tubes).
2012-10-08 10.55.18.jpg


THESE are the images I took of the Quad flowers this morning. they are a little smaller than a petunia.
20140402_084253.jpg20140402_084304.jpg


these are some close ups of the Plumbaginifolia flowers. their corolla tubes are very narrow, like those little coffee straws.
20140402_084336.jpg20140402_084401.jpg
 

skychaser

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Sky, where did you get the seed of that Quad because it doesn't look like mine at all. I know that the species was contentious and subdivided for a number of years (some were called Bigelovii), but the flowers on yours look more like the Megalosiphon or Suaveolens I grew two years ago.

Yes, I noticed they look quite different. I got my N. Quadrivalvis seed here: http://sacredsucculents.com It's listed under California natives

"Nicotiana quadrivalvis BK10911.1 “Indian Tobacco”

Solanaceae. Annual species 3–6′+ tall. Lanceolate leaves, 1.5″ tubular white flowers. Seed from plants growing along a creek bed, hills east of Santa Rosa, Sonoma Co. the main native tobacco that was once widely cultivated by numerous tribes, but has become scarce in recent times. For medicinal and religious purposes the leaves were smoked or chewed with lime made from burnt shells. We can help honor and revitalize relations with this ancient plant ally through cultivation. "

This first pict is of the Quadrivalvis when it was about 30 days in the field. I don't have any photos of it when it was smaller. The second two are of N. Clevelandii. The Clevelandii seed I have came from wild collect seed in San Luis Obispo county in 2011. You can see they are very similar plants. Clevelandii produces more and slightly bigger leaves, and also blooms profusely and is quite pretty. I thought about planting some in a big row along the driveway. But it re-seeds itself by the millions and grows like a weed, and I'd probably never get rid of it if I did.
 

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JessicaNicot

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I tried a clevelandii accession this year but it also failed to thrive. I had one plant about 3" across left, but it died over the weekend. maybe you could give me some pointers on germinating them. I think our growth room is both too hot and too bright.
 

skychaser

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I did them just like I do all nicotianas. I start the seed indoors where it stays 70-75f in a well lit room with big windows on the south an west sides. I don't use any heat pads or extra lighting. They sprouted in about the same time as all the others do. As soon as they are up they move to the greenhouse in full light. I try to keep it 80-85f in there during the days but at night it drops to 40f. I don't want to pay to heat it at night any more than is necessary (too cheap) and I figure it hardens them off to what they will experience when they move to the field.

The Clevelandii and Quadrivalvis seedlings are half the size of most tobacco during that first week. They are really really tiny and fragile looking things, but quickly catch up to other types of the same age. I never had any problems with sprouting or with them in the greenhouse. At around 3 weeks you can really tell they are something different. They don't look anything like Tobaccums or Rusticas They started spreading out and over growing other plants in the flats that were next to them, so I moved them to give them and the neighboring plants more room. I've had no problems dividing them by bare rooting them and re-potting. They grow like weeds for me, especially the Clevelandii. I had thousands of volunteers coming up in the field where I grew them the year before. And I pulled a couple hundred of them where they grew up out of the gravel under and around the carport where I cleaned the seeds. I'll bet they keep coming up there for years now. Just more weeds to kill. :/ I did let 3 grow under the carport where they were in the shade for 2/3 of the day as an experiment. The leaves got twice the size of the ones in full sun.

Fun plant to harvest seeds from too. You have to do it at least every other day, if not every day. As soon as the pods ripen, they crack open and start spilling the seed. This goes on for weeks and the pods are about 1/8 the size of tobaccums. Pick, pick, pick and then pick some more. And they are sticky as hell too. Yup, lots of fun trying to get a bucket of those. Alata is about the same.
 

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Jessica, what can you tell me about the N. amplexicaulis I'm growing this year?
 

JessicaNicot

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thanks Sky. I take it you're just using regular potting soil? I germinated them just fine on moist filter paper in petri dishes in our incubator (lower light and cooler temps than our growth rooms). I transplanted them super small with tweezers to our soil-sand mix thinking it would give them a leg up on moisture but the clevelandii and the other quad I tried hated it and just failed to thrive in the growth room. =/ Also, a lot of the species capsules shatter as soon as they ripen. megalosiphon and suaveolens both made like little goblets, but thankfully they weren't sticky at all. I checked them every day, gently plucked off the "cup", dumped the seed in an envelope and just threw out the capsule. the quad buds appear to have a lot of trichomes so I bet they're going to be a sticky mess...

Wallace, all I can say is I haven't grown Amplexicaulis yet. The only species I've grown so far are Suaveolens, Megalosiphon, Noctiflora and Undulata (neither of which were very successful), Paniculata, Africana, Sylvestris, Tomentosiformis, the Quadrivalvis and Plumbaginifolia im currently growing, and rusticas of course. however, I can say that some of the Suaveolentes group from Australia (to which amplexicaulis is a member) can be quite difficult im told (but so are benthamiana, suaveolens and megalosiphon and they grow quite well). its a total crap shoot. let me know how it goes.
 

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As soon as the pods ripen, they crack open and start spilling the seed. This goes on for weeks...
That is a wonderful observation. When any crop is managed and harvested for seed over scores or hundreds (or thousands) of years, the growers inadvertently select more seed from pods that have not yet burst. This tends to distinguish intensively cultivated varieties from wild varieties.

Although stands of N. tabacum and, to a greater extent, N. rustica can self-propagate for a few years, they eventually tend to die out, because the seed pods are more likely to remain intact, even after they are fully dried. Their efficiency of spontaneous seed dispersal is poor. This is seen by agricultural historians as a clear indication that both these Nicotiana species were historically cultivated, rather than wild species.

Bob
 

skychaser

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thanks Sky. I take it you're just using regular potting soil?

No potting soil. It's always too chunky unless it's screened first. I use a special germination/starter mix that I buy in bales from a local nursery. Going to get a couple bales tomorrow. We will be starting all our tobacco this weekend.


That is a wonderful observation. When any crop is managed and harvested for seed over scores or hundreds (or thousands) of years, the growers inadvertently select more seed from pods that have not yet burst. This tends to distinguish intensively cultivated varieties from wild varieties.

That makes sense. You would be unintentionally changing the genetic mix by harvesting the plants that held their seed a little longer than the others. After many generations, that would become the norm.
 

JessicaNicot

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That is a wonderful observation. When any crop is managed and harvested for seed over scores or hundreds (or thousands) of years, the growers inadvertently select more seed from pods that have not yet burst. This tends to distinguish intensively cultivated varieties from wild varieties.

Although stands of N. tabacum and, to a greater extent, N. rustica can self-propagate for a few years, they eventually tend to die out, because the seed pods are more likely to remain intact, even after they are fully dried. Their efficiency of spontaneous seed dispersal is poor. This is seen by agricultural historians as a clear indication that both these Nicotiana species were historically cultivated, rather than wild species.

Bob

My experience with rustica has it somewhere in between. sometimes the capsule doesn't open and sometimes they split a little along the seams (and I think this was also the case for the Africana, which is notably NOT cultivated). as for the tabacum, a lot of the primitive stuff opens up, and also a whole lot of the oriental stuff too. they don't peel open as widely into little goblets or cups like the other species tend to, but they will still dump out. I've been out in the field breaking down suckers and turned patches of the sandy soil brown with seed.
 
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