How to get cigar to burn razor sharp?

[Gdaddy]

There are cigars out there that burn perfectly right to the nub. No doubt it requires skilled rollers and aged tobacco but what is it that they do that gives a cigar this flawless burn characteristic? Some of my cigars do burn perfectly but some don't. They all get rolled the same way using the same tobacco so why the variation in burn? I'd love to get more consistency in this department. I don't like constant re-lights.

The cigars are all 5 months in humidor @ 63%. So too much moisture is ruled out.

If the tightness of the roll varies even slightly will that have an effect on burn? I try to add the same exact amount of tobacco in each cigar using the same exact blend and they all get pressed the same amount in the same size mold. They seem to be very consistent in this respect.

Certainly different wrappers burn easier than others. I do find thinner wraps burn better. Thicker maduro's not so much.

Has anyone tried...

Volado is used for combustion so what if you used a half leaf of volado on the binder? This way there would be a layer of 'combustion' material between the filler and the wrapper. Since the burn problems seem to come from the outer perimeter perhaps this addition would burn easier???

Anyone have any suggestions? Tips?

 

[webmost]

"Anyone have any suggestions? Tips?"

This question reminds me of the Texas oil man who the wife dragged to England on vacation. Strolling by a bowling green there one day, he was impressed. Remarked to ta feller working there: "Dang! That lawn right there is just what we need back home at the club. You reckon you could tell me how we can grow a lawn that nice back home?" The gardener replies: "Well, sir, it's quite simple, really. You start out with a good quality fescue, and then you roll it, twice a day, for four hundred years. Here, I'll write it down for you, sir, if that will help."

I imagine that the same is true for both Maria Lupita Conchita Esmeralda Rosita Gonzales y Alvarado, and her sister Luz, down at the Tabacalera in Honduras.... the first, say, thirty or forty thousand cigars they rolled may not have burnt razor sharp; but the subsequent three million burn pretty good.

 

[webmost]

I ought to add I have also smoked one or two out of the first thirty thou

 

[Dean]

I get it.... Wel said...


time and rolling experience is what will make a great cigar. I'm doing ok but not perfect yet...

 

[quo155]

Great question...and I too would love an answer.

But, webmost may have hit the nail on the head...

 

[Gdaddy]

"Anyone have any suggestions? Tips?"

This question reminds me of the Texas oil man who the wife dragged to England on vacation. Strolling by a bowling green there one day, he was impressed. Remarked to ta feller working there: "Dang! That lawn right there is just what we need back home at the club. You reckon you could tell me how we can grow a lawn that nice back home?" The gardener replies: "Well, sir, it's quite simple, really. You start out with a good quality fescue, and then you roll it, twice a day, for four hundred years. Here, I'll write it down for you, sir, if that will help."

I imagine that the same is true for both Maria Lupita Conchita Esmeralda Rosita Gonzales y Alvarado, and her sister Luz, down at the Tabacalera in Honduras.... the first, say, thirty or forty thousand cigars they rolled may not have burnt razor sharp; but the subsequent three million burn pretty good.

If this is true my question would be what is it she finally learned?

The other side of the coin is there are many very talented rollers working in factories and even after a few million cigars still produce cigars that burn unevenly. However there are a few companies that produce perfect burning cigars consistently. I don't believe the reason is because they hire more skilled or experienced rollers. I would think it has to be something about the construction method that has to be just right for the proper burn.

 

[Knucklehead]

Could you define consistent burn? Are you talking about cigars that burn at the same rate throughout the cigar? Cigars that burn down the side or crater the center? Cigars that go out when they shouldn't? Or are you referring to poor draw? Or all of the above?

 

[Gdaddy]

Could you define consistent burn? Are you talking about cigars that burn at the same rate throughout the cigar? Cigars that burn down the side or crater the center? Cigars that go out when they shouldn't? Or are you referring to poor draw? Or all of the above?

A cigar that remains lit (within reason) and doesn't require touch ups along the way due to uneven burn.

 

[deluxestogie]

I would say that what is "learned" is the fingertip feel of a filler bulk while it is being bound. Your fingers learn.

If there is any void (zone of little resistance to air flow) within the bulk, or if the filler leaves tend to layer (a zone of poor air flow), then the cigar burns poorly. A void can be identified in a factory cigar by weighing each bound bulk. Weighing (in a factory) will also eliminate overly packed bulks. Poor flow, for whatever reason, can be identified by flow testing each bound cigar bulk, before it is wrapped. Even the best rollers will make a few dogs now and then. These tests eliminate most of the bad ones. Only factories that produce some of the most expensive sticks on the market screen every single cigar like that.

My impression is that rolling a single cigar at a time, entirely by hand, then immediately smoking it, is the fastest route to rolling consistently well-burning cigars. Rolling 10 at a time, and placing them into a mold, then waiting days to smoke them encourages you to make 10 bad cigars at a time, and slows the learning process. (The purpose of a mold is to allow the production of identical, marketable cigars.)

I've stated elsewhere that it took me about 30 cigars before I could reliably roll cigars with a decent draw. After about 100 cigars, they began to consistently look presentable. But this is rolling one at a time, and getting immediate feedback by smoking it.

This is all about getting your fingertips and muscles to feel when it's right. Since every leaf is slightly different, no equation or revealed method can help improve your cigar rolling more than just rolling a lot of cigars.

Bob

 

[MarcL]

Look at it this way. and btw, I think you answered your own question. Consistency.

Okay, a commercial cigarette will burn razor sharp consistently. If you've had one run, something wasn't consistent. Like a machine made cigar, the filler is prepared to be consistent, the binder is homogenized. (Tobacco pulverized, mixed with fibers, pure cellulose, and water to create a pulp. The pulp makes a uniform sheet of tobacco.) Consistent.

Like the ligero (thicker/oilier leaves) placed in the center of the blend to produce an even burn, hence the importance of sorting, blending, and placement of the leaves for consistency.

So, for me, when they seem to be very consistent in these aspects, and don't burn right, what is up?
I think my blend is off, away from too much moisture.

Did you mean touch-up and say re-light Don?

There's nothing more frustrating, well maybe, then when you take the time toasting, and lighting a Padron Anniversario Serie 1926 #2 to perfection and having the burn wonk out on you just to have Jorge Padrón tell you it's "user error".

The difference between a Serie 1926 #2 and a Padron 6000 is quality of wrappers and the 6000 has mix filler.
And a 6000 will not typically wonk out because of that reason.

How does this sound?

 

[MarcL]

Well put Bob.

 

[El Gallo]

I've got to chime in on this discussion, all the afore mentioned points are very true, rolling a good burning cigar takes a lot of practice and good tobacco, and in my opinion, it had to do with the style of rolling as well, in my short time rolling, I've tried the book method, the tube method and the a achordian probably spelled that wrong. Of the three the only one that I find consistently burns straight and allows for a good draw of smoke is the tube method. The book method seems to have the most issues poor draw and uneven burn. That's just my experience. For what it's worth. Keep practicing it's the best way to see improvement. Using a mold also seems to help with reducing the ugly factor but also tightens everything up.

 

[Planter]

Reading your original post I understand draw is not an issue, but some need re-lighting?


In my (limited) experience, cigars rolled too tight have a draw-issue from the beginning or sooner or later get one. Also, too moist or too thin, unstable a filler and the airway collapses at some point.


Since you don´t have a draw problem, did you carefully group the leaves by plant position (=burning properties)?


Does the burn show tunneling? Can you remedy that by puffing faster?


I had an aged Partagás a few days ago, and while certainly a delicious cigar, the burn was not what one really would call PERFECT. For a while one side was running faster, twice the draw got a bit tight. It´s twin needed another match at some point and more opening. That´s part of the pleasure, beautiful things deserve attention.

 

[Ben Brand]

My son brought me 3 Romeo y Julieta, short Churchills from the Uk, one of the best and tastiest cigars I've ever smoked. But the 2 nd one had draw issues, really struggled to keep it going and the draw was hard. So yes, some of the big boys do make mistakes as well.
Ben

 

[webmost]

Could your probs be related to where you live? I know that in Summer, when we frequently get thunderstorm weather here in Dull-Aware, I get unreal burn problems. Tunnels, canoes, plug ups aplenty. Just because the air is so damp. In that kind of weather,

I try to select cigars that have a broadleaf wrapper, like the Perdomo Lot 23, or my favorite tasty bargain smokes, the FX Smiths Sons' Smithdale Maduro. Something about that Amish grown PA broadleaf just burns good period regardless. In the same weather when a high priced premium Sumatra or Habano wrapper would split and the filler would plug, a coarse broadleaf will burn along happy as a bonfire. So -- is it damp where you live?

Someone here posted a vid recently in which the roller advised that Volado leaf should be included for combustion. I should try that.

I make too many with draw issues Myself. Too loose or too tight. At my age, I wonder whether I have time to roll and smoke enough cigars to become truly talented at it.

Oh, and another thing: The fifth generation Smith at the cigar factory told me his family always hired all women rollers from the very beginning, and still do, even with machinery. Their hands are softer, is why. I am pretty sure that's why the dog obeys me and ignores my Redheaded Bearswaytter, is cause she resp[ects the strength of my hand when I pet her more than the soft touch of Redhead. A guy like me, with a history of sailing and carpentry and truck loading and such, who plays four wall handball and wrenches in motorcycles, I am not all that likely to employ the sensitive touch of a woman. That may be another factor which inhibits us from skillful rolling. Unless you are a surgeon or office worker who does not yard work. I dunno.

Just random thots.

 

[deluxestogie]

Remedies:

• Move to somewhere else
• Get some volado from Cuba
• Hand transplant

It's hard to chose.

webmost's insight about ambient humidity is a good one. I have observed that most cigars don't burn as well on rainy days--I always smoke cigars outside, though under cover. The more quickly a wrapper leaf hydrates, the more likely is its burn to be affected by the humidity of the air. When I wrap a cigar in Habana 2000, or CT Shade, or a thin Sumatra type, I can mist a dry leaf, and have it ready for rolling in 30 to 60 seconds. CT Broadleaf, as an example, requires overnight hydrating in a Ziplock, in order to adequately hydrate for use as a wrapper. These different hygroscopic qualities will also reflect differences in the time it takes for a very humid day to affect the burn of a finished cigar.

In general, the case of the leaf--all components of the cigar--significantly affects the burn. If your filler is nice and flexible, then it may require more than two weeks in a 65% RH humidor, in order to dry adequately. (A closed cigar dries out from the open foot.) If your filler is so dry that it almost crumbles, then it's nearly impossible to roll a cigar that doesn't draw well, regardless of how tightly you bind and wrap it. Filler that feels nice is not so nice for rolling, unless you are prepared to wait a while.

About the volado for combustion, this depends on the variety and the batch itself. Some lug leaf (volado) burns poorly, some very well. My Vuelta Abajo tip leaf, that kilns to an oscuro black, is so oily that it will burn like a candle if I allow it. I think the lesson is that you will benefit from observing the combustibility of your leaf choices. [Test a sample of your leaf lamina by touching it to the cherry of a lit cigar, and watching how it responds.]

The "women's hands" legend (popular also among the cigar shakers and movers of the Caribbean) is, I believe, a possibly valid association, but not causal. (The sun always rises when the morning newspaper is delivered--who gets those anymore?--but a failed paper delivery does not affect whether the sun will rise. The delivery and the sunrise are associated, but not in a causal way.) That is to say, having two X chromosomes doesn't improve your ability to roll cigars properly. Gender roles encourage males to bash things with blunt objects, and encourage females to engage in skills that improve delicate hand-eye coordination. My point here is that anyone can learn to properly roll a cigar (or play a harpsichord). If you've done delicate tasks in the past, then cigar rolling may come more quickly. Past skills affect the rate of the learning curve, but not the shape of the learning curve.

My recurring theme is that the more you roll cigars, the better they will get. Any "secret" tips are just things that you would eventually discover on your own, with enough practice and observation.

Bob

 

[holyRYO]

Oh, and another thing: The fifth generation Smith at the cigar factory told me his family always hired all women rollers from the very beginning, and still do, even with machinery. Their hands are softer, is why.

The "women's hands" legend (popular also among the cigar shakers and movers of the Caribbean) is, I believe, a possibly valid association, but not causal... Gender roles encourage males to bash things with blunt objects, and encourage females to engage in skills that improve delicate hand-eye coordination.

Bob

I definitely prefer a woman's for mine, no doubt about it, regardless of the outcome.

 

[Planter]

Oh, and another thing: The fifth generation Smith at the cigar factory told me his family always hired all women rollers from the very beginning, and still do, even with machinery.
.

According to "The Toscano" book that was / is true for Italy, contrary to (pre-revolution) Cuba.

 

[Gdaddy]

I don't believe humidity is not the cause of an uneven burn. Living in Florida I'm very well aware of the effects of drawing in humid air through the cigar. However, my favorite cigar, the Don 'Pepin" blue label gives me a razor sharp burn line in all levels of humidity. On very humid nights it may burn slower but it still burns consistently straight.

I also don't believe the rollers are elite, 'soft fingered nymphs' exclusive only to companies like Pepin.

So when I see a cigar like this burn consistently so perfectly I have to wonder why, what is the technical reason that cigar that makes it burn this way???

I do know that for many years cigarettes achieve a perfect burn by using potassium nitrate(salt peter) (Ouch! there's that bad word again!) It's use was also recorded in cigar recipes over a hundred years ago. This is fact not my opinion. So is it possible that some of these family recipes are still in use today with modern rollers? I do think it's possible that part of the binder blend could be treated with KNO3 as it is tasteless, odorless and you'd never know it's on there except the only evidence would be a perfect burn. It is water soluble so it can easily be sprayed and absorbed into the leaf. No one would know it's there. The only evidence would be a perfectly burning cigar.

A grower may add sodium nitrate as a fertilizer supplement in the soil and have the plant absorb it.

I see video's of the cigar tobacco going into special spray rooms being treated with something. Admittedly spray solutions of family secret formulas. It makes me wonder what the heck are they spraying on the leaves in these closed containers? Again, they admit it's more than just water.

I really don't like the idea of adding salt peter to the tobacco. However it's not as toxic as it sounds. It is used in the food industry and is much less toxic than nicotine. When it's burned it releases oxygen. Anyone who used to smoke commercial cigarettes has already tried KNO3 and were probably unaware it was there. You've probably eaten it in certain foods as a preservative. So don't get too freaked out.

My only other thought is, as I mentioned, would be adding a burning agent such as Volado under or over the binder leaf. Admittedly I like this idea much more and will try this experiment shortly to see if any improvements can be had.

BTW... Overall I'm VERY happy with my cigars and some of them do burn perfectly as shown below. Consistency is what I'm striving for and the only thing that erks me is an uneven burn.

 

[Knucklehead]

How many cigars have you rolled?