"Grow Out" help

[FmGrowit]

Some of the FTT seed collection is coming up on three years old. Some of these varieties will be removed from the collection for lack of merit, but some will need to be refreshed with a new grow out. If anyone would be willing to participate, you can request as many as you want, but I'd recommend limiting to not more than 10 varieties.

There are also a number of untested varieties that need to be grown. Anyone who would like to do a test run for currently unknown varieties is welcome to help. The ideal situation for a test planting would be for several guys to grow the same variety in a quantity large enough to send me several pounds for testing. I will match pound for pound any cured leaf you send in for testing. So in effect, you could grow 20 lbs. of a test variety and distribute all of it and still end up with 20 lbs. of whatever is available at WholeLeafTobacco.com. Test growers will be expected to preserve the flower head of one plant to return to the seed collection.

Samples of the test tobacco will be distributed to other members for review.

 

[SmokesAhoy]

Very cool. I think this year coming up I will only do one or two varieties though, maybe just one (probably) I know my limitations now heh. So it'll all be pure then.

 

[deluxestogie]

Don,
It might be helpful to clarify the isolation requirements for seed purity, for anyone wishing to do a grow-out.

Bob

 

[FmGrowit]

Yes, I probably didn't reinforce the importance of the task enough.

The primary purpose of the grow-out is to either create a seed source from a limited number of seeds or to replenish/refresh an existing seed source. Many embers have donated seeds from the GRIN seed bank. Those seeds will not be available to members through the FTT seed collection until there is a sufficient quantity available for distribution.

Both types of grow-out's will require the grower to be very attentive to the flowers remaining isolated from other tobacco varieties...this means bagging the flower head is absolutely necessary. I will purchase enough bags from Daniel and send two bags per variety requested by the grower.

 

[Daniel]

FM I sent you a PM regarding the bags. Wish I could take on growing some of the seed. I don't have enough growing room and so far the search for land to use has not been working. Still looking though and that can change at any moment. If it does I will be looking for a variety to grow out for you as well.

 

[CaryNC]

I have a lot of open spots throughout my acreage here and can probably handle about 15-20 varieties, and keep them somewhat isolated (100' apart or more) at the same time. Each area is unique as it can have full sun to full shade. I doubt I would have to do anything to the soil because of the area I am in. The only thing I would need is the bags to cover the seed head.

I have already spoken to the farmer behind me about borrowing a few feet of his land against the fence line and he has no problem with it. I could get 4 or 5 rows of about 2500' straight runs in full sun as just another option. He is growing pine trees for the state so he really does not care what grows, as I could already tell since the weeds this summer were taller than the seedlings.

Send me a PM and I can better plan this out as per your instructions.

 

[SmokesAhoy]

What kind of distance are we talking to avoid cross pollination? I live next to a dairy farm and am the only tobacco grower in at least a mile radius, since that is how far it is to the next possible grower andit do doesn't grow here naturally

 

[FmGrowit]

If you're only growing one variety, I think you're safe with not bagging your plants. On the same note...it doesn't take a heck of a lot of effort to bag a flower head, but it would be nice to allow self crossing for the overall improvement of the variety.

 

[Chicken]

this year i plan on '' early bagging''
and close supervision as to when the plant flowers,,,

i have a lot of different strains,, and plan on having pure seeds from each strain for the following year...

cross pollination is a killer,,,,, if your going for pure genetics,

 

[deluxestogie]

What kind of distance are we talking to avoid cross pollination? I live next to a dairy farm and am the only tobacco grower in at least a mile radius, since that is how far it is to the next possible grower andit do doesn't grow here naturally

Studies have demonstrated cross-pollination within 1/2 mile. At that distance, it was limited, but measurable. The distance seems to be determined by the foraging distance of the specific insects (like the Manduca moth) that visit tobacco blossoms in any particular region.

Wind-borne pollination does occur, but only to a very minimal extent, and is probable only with fairly close proximity. (In growing maize--corn, which is exclusively wind pollinated, the plot must be square or round, rather than a long, single row, in order to insure adequate pollination.) So organza and nylon mesh bags may not be adequate if different varieties are planted close to one another. Agribon-AG15 costs less than organza, and does a good job of blocking air-borne pollen. (I have a sneezing fit every time I open an Agribon bag to extract the seed.)

Nicotiana tabacum is unlikely to be pollinated by nearby plants of other Nicotiana species, such as N. rustica or the various "flowering" tobaccos sometimes used in landscaping. But keep in mind that some so-called rustica varieties, such as Mt. Pima and Papante, may in fact be N. tabacum that is widely misclassified. If a presumed N. rustica variety produces a stumpy, yellow blossom, then it probably is N. rustica, and should not cross effectively with N. tabacum.

Bob

 

[FmGrowit]

One way we can avoid duplicate grow-outs is to start a list of what everyone is growing next year and if they are willing to bag a plant and donate the seeds.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Since you (FmGrowit) will be the recipient of these seeds you might want to make up a little one page info sheet on how to bag the plants. What is simple for many of us is often confusing for those just starting. Things like when to bag, what type of bag to use, when to remove etc would probably be helpful and help to ensure you are getting a non-crossed strain. Additionally, you might want to have a simple rating system that would let us know if the seed was saved by an "experienced-trusted" grower or a newbie. I am getting a little tired of people saying they grow tobacco and they are the only one for miles around so theirs "must" be pure.

Just some thoughts... I like giving you things to do to keep you busy

 

[SmokesAhoy]

Haha I say that but if I do a grow it'll be bagged. That should obviously be a requirement. I think vermont is great for growing seed, thus far nic has been nonexistent though

 

[indianjoe]

FM, thats a good idea to make a list of varieties grown. Just let me know when to contribute and what to add to my grow next year. I hear ya jitterbugdude !

 

[Jack in NB]

Don -

I can help with your grow-out program if you wish. Could try a couple of vareities of your choice.

And I have some GRIN TN-90 first and second crop seed here, as well as some first-crop Havana 503. I also have an excellent unknown very lusty green-ribbed and tasty plant selected from a pot-pourri of seed received a few years ago. As well as being tasty - just a touch of sweet, with some Havana overtones, it's also my heaviest yielder.

I'm becoming more confident with my bagging efforts - last year I had perhaps 1 in 5 odd-ball plants mixed in my lots, this year that's down to perhaps 1 in 10 - 15. Not sure if it's in the bagging, or possibly mixing in the later seeding and handling ops. I suspect it's the latter, because I had one odd-ball in 5 of my GRIN Havana 503, and I doubt that their seed would be contaminated.

SmokesAhoy -

When you say you have non-existant nic, what exactly does that mean? I've had great luck growing here in NB, a zone or two colder than you I think.

 

[BigBonner]

Don't forget I will have several good varietys of plants this year . They would make a good contribution to the seed bank next fall .

 

[FmGrowit]

Jack,

Thank you very much for the offer. If each member were to do one grow-out, it would take care of the whole situation. If you can donate some of your TN 90, I can remove that one from the list. I'd also like to get some of your "NB 11" to add to the seed bank...it sounds like a very good quality and versatile tobacco.

I'll start a thread with a list of varieties that need refreshed. If anyone is growing any of these and are willing to donate a teaspoon or two, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[SmokesAhoy]

Jack, I read somewhere that nic was produced in larger quantities when the plant is stressed. VT in summer might as well be the garden of eden. It rained 60% at least every week. I think the stress of not receiving water ups the content. Also, following transplant there is/was no insect damage or issues. I think those 2 factors contributed to the nic being almost nil. Even the rustica was lackin fg

 

[Jack in NB]

Understood. Maybe you'd like to try some of my (I think) Perique. Looks like perique, cures to the darkest tobacco in my arsenal, and packs a whollop. Not sure wether it's nic or not, but it's way too potent for me! I'm not replanting; have some seed.

 

[johnlee1933]

Don, I still have limited space but twice as much as last year (all raised bed, irrigated). You can count me IN for two varieties. I plan do grow CT shade and broadleaf, YTB and Maryland. I would appreciate it if the varieties you want me to test are thought to be "mild". I want to use them as cigar filler and I prefer mild cigars. Since my patch is small I don't get "pounds" of anything and may only be able to send you a few leaves of each.

I have a couple for friends who have expressed an interest in container growing for me. You ever do any SIP in 5 gallon containers? I'm playing with using shallow sections (top and bottom) of 55 gal plastic drums as the reservoir so my friends won't have to water as often. (I read the stuff on "container growing" and "SIP" suggested in earlier posts here.)

I'd love to post some pics but am still having issues there.

John