Stalk harvesting or leaf

[Livewithkindness]

What is the difference between stock and leaf harvesting as far as tobacco taste and nic levels . If I want tobacco with lower nic levels and sweeter full flavor taste which method would be better . Thank you John

 

[SmokesAhoy]

You would want to prime each leaf individually then

 

[FmGrowit]

Stock harvesting is "Stalk" harvesting which means the whole plant is cut down and hung in a barn while the leaves are still on the "stalk"

Leaf harvesting is called "Priming". Priming is picking the leaves as they ripen and then stringing the leaves to hang and cure.

The two type of curing you are referring to are known as "Stalk Curing" and "Priming"

 

[Daniel]

This year I primed most of my tobacco. Turned out to be a mistake for me as the tobacco came out very weak. In some cases almost like sucking air weak. I did stalk harvest some of my last plants and that tobacco has come out much stronger. Like a full flavor cigarette stronger. I also stalk harvested all of my Bursa and Yellow Twist Bud. The YTB has the mildest and best flavor so far. Nice tobacco for me sad thing is it does not like growing in buckets the way I have to do it. Everyones taste is different and everyones idea of a good tobacco is different. you can sometimes get a ballpark suggestion but the final selection will be made by your taste buds. I see that as the reason a tobacco exchange would work very well. You could swap samples of tobacco with other growers and get an idea of many more varieties faster.

 

[Chicken]

This year I primed most of my tobacco. Turned out to be a mistake for me as the tobacco came out very weak. In some cases almost like sucking air weak. I did stalk harvest some of my last plants and that tobacco has come out much stronger. Like a full flavor cigarette stronger. I also stalk harvested all of my Bursa and Yellow Twist Bud. The YTB has the mildest and best flavor so far. Nice tobacco for me sad thing is it does not like growing in buckets the way I have to do it. Everyones taste is different and everyones idea of a good tobacco is different. you can sometimes get a ballpark suggestion but the final selection will be made by your taste buds. I see that as the reason a tobacco exchange would work very well. You could swap samples of tobacco with other growers and get an idea of many more varieties faster.

lol.... when i first read the o.p's question i was thinking of your previous post where you stated you'd have preffered a whole stalk leaf to a primed leaf,,,

which triggered me to try my ''go'' at whole stalk harvesting,,, my shed i got full of whole stalk is coming along nicely,,,,

im curious to try the difference of my primed,, kilned leaf/ vs, the whole stalk leaf,,,,

the primed leaf,, i.m.o. of '' BIG-GEM'' was a weak baccy,,,, good for someone who likes a '' light

but i like a strong smoke,,,, hopefully this whole stalk baccy is stronger,,, but time will tell...

 

[O.S.O.K.]

So.... it is generally better to hang the stalks? That will call for a different design for the curing barn... more space between the racks to allow for the length of the plant.

 

[FmGrowit]

It all depends of what you're growing. All commercial cigar wrapper and Flue cured leaf is primed. All commercial Burley and Dark air is stalk cured. You can always double space your tier poles and then only use every other one some years when you stalk cure and every one when you prime.

 

[Chicken]

i havent smoked none of my whole plant curing in the barn,,,

but i have noticed IT HAS ALL DRIED NICELY, a dark brown colour,,, where the piled baccy of the same strain dried light brown,,and kinda weak,,,

soon i need to take some pics and update my whole stalk curing experiment,

 

[Jitterbugdude]

So far I have not noticed any difference in stalk cured vs primed. I still have to do the double blind test though. I'm going to give my wife some stalk cured tobacco and some primed and tell her to label them A and B but not let me know which is which. So far, I've smoked Havana 142, Black Sea Samsun-Maden, Black Sea Samsum-Canik, Silver River, Bursa and Silk Leaf . So far I can't tell the difference... your mileage may vary. I still have two sets of cigars I'm going to give to my friend. I'll see what he says.

 

[SmokesAhoy]

The only flavor difference I detect comes from cigar varieties, but I can't explain it in words so it is a little frustrating

 

[FmGrowit]

Explaining it in sign language wouldn't help either

Personally, I notice a big difference, but I prime much earlier than I stalk cure. I know from viewing many pictures and videos, cigar leaf is primed well before the leaf ripens. There is no yellow in the leaf nor is there any crinkling of the leaf surface....and these where pictures and videos from Cuba. I remember Lonnie talking about how horrible his tobacco was when he let it get ripe ripe (his term) and that it was much better harvested early.

I contend the leaf continues to ripen well after it is harvested whole stalk and it stops ripening within hours of being primed. I've had stalks form buds and actually flower while hanging. There's a lot of energy stored in the stalk and the plant continues to try to grow using the stored energy. Maybe wilting the stalks for a day or two kills the plant faster...I don't know.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Explaining it in sign language wouldn't help either

Maybe wilting the stalks for a day or two kills the plant faster...I don't know.

I tried that too. I cut some of my stalks length wise then hung them. They wilted a lot quicker than the uncut stalks. Unfortunately I lost track of which ones they were.

 

[BigBonner]

The worst thing about wilting tobacco on the stalk is that cigar types of tobacco will sun burn easily , resulting in green color cured streaks through the leaf .
Ct Broadleaf is cut laid on the ground for a hour or two then speared onto tobacco sticks and took to the barn , It will sun burns easy . Havana will burn quicker . Last year I cut mine , laid the stalks on a wagon and put them under a shade tree to wilt then speared onto tobacco sticks . Be careful of shade trees the sun moves the shade moves .

With Burley I leave mine cut on the stick in the field for 3 days to wilt . Burley will Sun burn a little but after 3 days and heavy dews it comes out with no problems .

 

[Daniel]

The tobacco I stalk harvested last year kept growing after it was hung. It blossomed and even produced some seed pods after it was cut down. not all of it but some of the plants did. Tough plant.

 

[Chicken]

heres some pics of my whole plant,, and some leaves off the same plants i cured and hung,

..

By chickenhawk435 at 2012-01-08
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By chickenhawk435 at 2012-01-08
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By chickenhawk435 at 2012-01-08
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By chickenhawk435 at 2012-01-08

 

[wazzappenning]

oh boy, i think im going to have problems. my shed is very small. maybe 3 by 6 5 1/2 high ish. does it have to dry in a shed or just be out of the sun?

 

[Daniel]

I live in a very dry climate and hung all my tobacco in my shop. basically nothing more than protected from wind and sun. it cured just fine. the danger is that the leaf dries green. you want to stay limp and moist until it turns brown then get dry.

I am going to have a huge space problem this year. I am hoping flue curing and sun curing in a temporary hoop house will help resolve some of the issues of space. still I have to find room to stalk harvest and hang 720 plants.

 

[Daniel]

I have done a lot of looking into harvesting of tobacco. and this is what I have found so far.

In regard to priming-
Name of leaf Harvested (days)General position
Primordial leaves Lost in seed bed
Mañanitas 37- 40 days small lowest leaves
Libre de pie 43 - 45 2 or 3 lowest leaves
Uno y medio 48 - 50 days Next two lowest
Centro ligero 52 - 55 days low basil
Centro fino 55 - 58 days 2 - 4 central leaf
Centro gordo 62-65 days 2 leaf below corona
Corona 70-75 days top 2 leaves
any other leaf 58 - 62 days harvest pre gordo (topping)

By conservative count the above indicates approximately 14 leaves per plant to as many as 18.

I also discovered that the choice to prime harvest or stalk harvest can roughly be applied to the type of tobacco.
Burleys would generally be stalk harvested while Virginias would be primed and flue cured. Orientals are generally sun cured but I believe stalk harvested.

Final choice is up to the grower and what they desire to produce.

I do not think there is a best way to grow harvest or process tobacco. No more than there is a best way to make a cup of coffee. I can tell you that sugar will reduce the bitterness of coffee. But for many that bitterness is exactly why they drink coffee. It is not anyone's place to tell you you don't want it.

The above information was gathered from a cigar leaf growing source. Tobacco for other uses may be better if harvested to a different schedule. In my case to harvest according to this schedule it means I will have to make 8, 2 hour round trips to my tobacco field in a 3 and a half week period. I don't think so. I plan to take two of the suggested harvesting times and split them in half. my projected plan is to harvest on.
Day 42, 51, and 60 for example taking 3 to 4 leaves per harvest. Actual growth of the plant and ripening of the leaf will determine exactly what day we harvest what.

 

[johnlee1933]

The worst thing about wilting tobacco on the stalk is that cigar types of tobacco will sun burn easily , resulting in green color cured streaks through the leaf .
Ct Broadleaf is cut laid on the ground for a hour or two then speared onto tobacco sticks and took to the barn , It will sun burns easy . .

BB, I have watched them harvest CT shade. The guys walking the rows get a good armful and put it in a white plastic box shown here.



As soon as 3 or 4 armfuls are in the box ( elapsed time less than 5 minutes) the burlap cover is tossed over the leaves. The box is then stacked on the trailer and transported to the barn for hanging. My guess at the total elapsed time is about an hour. The trailers are not shaded but the boxes are. This says to me they are very sensitive to sun burning.

John

 

[johnlee1933]

. Actual growth of the plant and ripening of the leaf will determine exactly what day we harvest what.

Yeah and I'll bet rain ain't a problem. ;<))

John