I think that should cover it.
We'll then probably want to make a plan to send out samples to one another and somehow determine which one came closest.
Balkan Sobranie facsimile
- Thread starter FmGrowit
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I think that should cover it.
We'll then probably want to make a plan to send out samples to one another and somehow determine which one came closest.
jojjas
Well-Known Member
I might be jumpstarting this , i got some leafs from Rainmax couple of months ago and i thought i could do my own trial run here
DonH
Well-Known Member
I'd like in if I'm not too late.
Perhaps Lemon Va, Prilep and Izmir (with the Latakia and Red VA) would likely do the trick. If you can get some Xanthi Yaka, then all the better.
I assume this will not be limited to the specific varieties provided. (If the objective is to assemble a marketable "kit" for WLT, then submissions should be limited to only the varieties that WLT can obtain.)
If the sample of BS White is sufficient for at least two bowls, then each participant could smoke one bowl prior to blending.
The single, submitted blend should be a large enough quantity for each of the participants to get at least a bowl's worth. (I'm not sure how many folks are in on this.)
Each participant would send his entire batch to JBD, who would then blind-label them and send at least a bowl of sample of each of the blends to each participant.
Finally, each participant can smoke the remaining bowl of real BS White at the time of rating each of the submissions, and PM his judgment to JBD.
So, one for all and all for one. Make a batch for everybody, then sample some of each.
Bob
That's a doable plan Bob.
Well...a few days have passed. The chaos of the harvest is behind us. The bundle of sample leaf from Don has been waiting to be done "soon" for longer than I had realized. I looked at the postmark. Yikes! I'm embarrassed. Did everyone else do their duty, and I missed it?
It's mid-November now. I inspected the ingredients once again. VA Red, Lemon VA, Izmir and Prilep--over a half-pound of each. Plus my supply of Cyprus Latakia, also from Don.
Last night, I unsealed the worrisomely dark packet of "80s Balkan Sobranie Smoking Mixture." The good news is that it contained enough for about 5 bowls. The bad news is that it must be from the late batches, made in the back streets of Calcutta. It bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Balkan Sobranie White of old. What's worse, it has definitely been cased with some flavorant. No...no...no! I'm not saying that the real stuff was a little more this and a little less that. It's not a problem of age taking its toll. This is something entirely different. The sample (forgive me for saying so) smells and smokes like a cheap Altadis knockoff of an "English" blend. Don't try to come close to this in your blending. It's from a different planet--the wrong planet.
The real deal, from my recollection, has the following attributes:
Now that I've been driven indoors by the cold weather, I should be able to get this done over the next couple of weeks.
Who is participating?
Bob (hoping not too many people are pissed about the delay)
It's mid-November now. I inspected the ingredients once again. VA Red, Lemon VA, Izmir and Prilep--over a half-pound of each. Plus my supply of Cyprus Latakia, also from Don.
Last night, I unsealed the worrisomely dark packet of "80s Balkan Sobranie Smoking Mixture." The good news is that it contained enough for about 5 bowls. The bad news is that it must be from the late batches, made in the back streets of Calcutta. It bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Balkan Sobranie White of old. What's worse, it has definitely been cased with some flavorant. No...no...no! I'm not saying that the real stuff was a little more this and a little less that. It's not a problem of age taking its toll. This is something entirely different. The sample (forgive me for saying so) smells and smokes like a cheap Altadis knockoff of an "English" blend. Don't try to come close to this in your blending. It's from a different planet--the wrong planet.
The real deal, from my recollection, has the following attributes:
- general appearance of bright lemon, two shades of brown, and black--I'm guessing about 1/3 of each.
- The Latakia component was less than 50%, and greater than 25%.
- NO casing.
- Pouch aroma was a nutty Latakia mix, with the distinctive aroma of VA Red and floral Oriental.
- The strength was between light-to-medium and medium.
- It was not intense. The smoke was smooth, with little tongue bite.
Now that I've been driven indoors by the cold weather, I should be able to get this done over the next couple of weeks.
Who is participating?
Bob (hoping not too many people are pissed about the delay)
Well, that's disappointing. I'm guessing the BS with the lid that needs a key to open is the genuine stuff. The tobacco you got was sealed, but it had a pull-tab lid.
I't will be impossible to recreate the blend without something to compare new blends to.
I't will be impossible to recreate the blend without something to compare new blends to.
BarG
Founding Member
Sometimes bad is good. this may not be that time.
A couple of options here: (A) the tobacco "White Knight" won the award last year at the Chicago Pipe Show for the tobacco most similar to the original Balkan Sobranie. Buy a tin and try to mimic that, or (B) there is Ebay but expect to pay upwards of $100.00 for 1 tin. There is also "Pipestud". He sells vintage tobacco on/for commission. He has an outstanding reputation. You could buy from him but the price would probably be almost as high as Ebay.
I have tried White Knight and do not like it. Too chemical laden for me. Personally, I like the blend I make based on the Balkan Sobranie mixing cards. I cannot say it is anywhere near the real thing as I have not tasted the real thing but after 11 different experimental batches I found the ultimate mix.. to me at least. I do not think there will ever be a real Balkan Sobranie mimic. Even if you had a tin it would be 30 years old and 30 year old tobacco tastes vastly different than freshly manufactured tobacco. I hate to say it but this is the ultimate "pipe dream"....literally
I have tried White Knight and do not like it. Too chemical laden for me. Personally, I like the blend I make based on the Balkan Sobranie mixing cards. I cannot say it is anywhere near the real thing as I have not tasted the real thing but after 11 different experimental batches I found the ultimate mix.. to me at least. I do not think there will ever be a real Balkan Sobranie mimic. Even if you had a tin it would be 30 years old and 30 year old tobacco tastes vastly different than freshly manufactured tobacco. I hate to say it but this is the ultimate "pipe dream"....literally
I will create several Balkan Sobranie candidates. I guess that what we need is a list of other codgers who are familiar with the original product.
BS Smoking Mixture aside, my practical goal is to propose a leaf tobacco blending kit for WLT that would include a blending matrix chart for a range of English-style blends. At this point, there are 6 components, represented in 10 blends. Purchasers of the kit could receive a printout of the 1 page matrix.
Bob
Bob, Randy,
It doesn't make too much sense to spread this mission out, so I'll send both of you anything you need to make the blends.
Let me know what you want (Toasted Burley and Threshed FC included).
Randy, I'll send you what you want with your order (which will be refunded)
It doesn't make too much sense to spread this mission out, so I'll send both of you anything you need to make the blends.
Let me know what you want (Toasted Burley and Threshed FC included).
Randy, I'll send you what you want with your order (which will be refunded)
Don, I could use a small amount of dark air. (I have India dark air, but yours may taste different.) Dark Air can, to some extent, fill the role of Perique in raising the pH of a blend, to balance the Virginias.
We still need a Council of Elders (a bunch of old farts--over 60 y/o) who have a recollection of the old Balkan Sobranie. I know some are hiding in Arizona and New Mexico. Volunteers are requested. This may be our last trip to the Balkan Sobranie Memorial, before we're all too senile to judge a blend.
Bob
We still need a Council of Elders (a bunch of old farts--over 60 y/o) who have a recollection of the old Balkan Sobranie. I know some are hiding in Arizona and New Mexico. Volunteers are requested. This may be our last trip to the Balkan Sobranie Memorial, before we're all too senile to judge a blend.
Bob
Bob, I wonder how accurately you and others could acces your memories from so long ago. I remember when coke changed their original formula and then went back to the original several years later. I do not think I could identify the " new" formula today based on 30 year old taste buds
Olfactory memories are deeply embedded, and tied directly to emotion centers in the brain. I clearly remember the smell of my Great Grandmother's kitchen in the morning.
Of course, it's always a gamble, but I've been "comparing" other Balkan blends against my template of Balkan Sobranie Smoking Mixture for the past few decades.
This doesn't really require accuracy, but a sense of the spirit of Balkan Sobranie. When C&D states that blend X is "inspired" by Balkan Sobranie White (BSW), but the blend contains burley, well...that isn't the spirit of Balkan Sobranie. I think I can come close enough that a kit accompanied by a chart of blending variants would allow even the most particular BSW fan to blend up a satisfying batch.
It can't be a contest--just a hopeful project. After tasting Don's "later" BSW, I have a better understanding of why younger pipe smokers have asked what the big deal is. Although Prilep offers a slightly different floral aroma than Xanthi (Yenidje) leaf, it is close--probably closer that today's "Yenidje" is to yesterday's "Yenidje".
Bob
Of course, it's always a gamble, but I've been "comparing" other Balkan blends against my template of Balkan Sobranie Smoking Mixture for the past few decades.
This doesn't really require accuracy, but a sense of the spirit of Balkan Sobranie. When C&D states that blend X is "inspired" by Balkan Sobranie White (BSW), but the blend contains burley, well...that isn't the spirit of Balkan Sobranie. I think I can come close enough that a kit accompanied by a chart of blending variants would allow even the most particular BSW fan to blend up a satisfying batch.
It can't be a contest--just a hopeful project. After tasting Don's "later" BSW, I have a better understanding of why younger pipe smokers have asked what the big deal is. Although Prilep offers a slightly different floral aroma than Xanthi (Yenidje) leaf, it is close--probably closer that today's "Yenidje" is to yesterday's "Yenidje".
Bob
Desertpipe
Well-Known Member
Bob, this old fart never had a taste for heavy Lat blends. I find most of the new "copies" of the old blends using available tobacco to be lacking. Fred Hanna probably hit the best balance of taste and smoke with the two blends mentioned. Another "old school blend" is the VaPer created by a member of the Triangle Area Pipe Smokers (North Carolina).... TAPS VIP. It is my favorite to date, and became "unavailable" six weeks ago. One of my goals at the West Coast Pipe Show was to try to get Mark to run another batch of this one. I think I succeeded, and he says he has the original tobaccos still in stock. That is the biggest hurtle in replication...sourcing the original varieties of tobacco, and even knowing what you are looking for is the big unknown. Good luck with your competition.
For my part, I think I will put up about 20 tins of this VIP run in the cellar.....the half dozen I have currently look awful paltry in the mix.
For my part, I think I will put up about 20 tins of this VIP run in the cellar.....the half dozen I have currently look awful paltry in the mix.
ProfessorPangloss
Amateur Kentuckian
Okay, so I'm a n00b and a young'un, but this Balkan Sobranie (I refuse to acronym it as BS) is intriguing, if only because it has the mystique of Chateau Petrus or Pappy VanWinkle - something that you could theoretically make or buy, but is practically unattainable. Now, I've laid plans for growing Catterton (maybe Cavendish some it) and Perique, but I could make room for a few more things (I live in the Bluegrass burley belt, so everything grows great here). I'd be open to a dozen plants of one of those exotic varieties if they are "get-able," if that would help future blending endeavors, and hey, if in the pursuit of ultimate excellence one attains mere "pretty damn goodness," then we've all done well.
As far as tasting experience, I bought some Lat/Per + something blend from my local pipe store! but the guy couldn't tell me what else was in it because he didn't blend it. He assumed (aloud) since I like aromatics that I wouldn't like it and would find it harsh, but to the contrary, I thought it was great. And since one can only smoke so much in one's lifetime, might as well go for quality over quantity.
tl;dr - what's the current status of this experiment? If anyone has some resulting blend left, I'd be happy to trade some of whatever I get this year for it, in the name of education and culture.
As far as tasting experience, I bought some Lat/Per + something blend from my local pipe store! but the guy couldn't tell me what else was in it because he didn't blend it. He assumed (aloud) since I like aromatics that I wouldn't like it and would find it harsh, but to the contrary, I thought it was great. And since one can only smoke so much in one's lifetime, might as well go for quality over quantity.
tl;dr - what's the current status of this experiment? If anyone has some resulting blend left, I'd be happy to trade some of whatever I get this year for it, in the name of education and culture.
Nothing ever came of this but I'm willing to give it a go if others want to participate.
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