Buy Tobacco Leaf Online | Whole Leaf Tobacco

Buy American

Status
Not open for further replies.

CT Tobaccoman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
464
Points
28
Location
Southern New England
As a former foreman in Conn Shade in Conn and Mass, I have come to know which cigars have USA grown wrappers and binders. So, in an effort to take a drop out from the ocean of Ecuador Connecticut wrappers being deceitfully called Connecticut Shade, I'll gradually look through catalogs and report the genuines and the "fakes."

If anybody wants to know about a specific cigar, most likely I can tell you.

I identified quite a few cigars in a post under Introduce Yourself. Take a peek at that first.

Today, with the Cigars International catalog before me:

Genuine USA grown wrappers:

Connecticut Shade USA: Macanudo Natural, Macanudo Robust, Ashton Cabinet, Ashton Natural, Cusano 18, CI Fresh Rolled (cheap,) Helix, Montecristo Classic, Perdomo Fresco, Rocky Patel Vintage 1999, Nat Sherman Host (75% sure,) Pioneer Valley natural, Sancho Panza natural, Varina Farms, probably Excalibur and quite a few others. For the past few years less than 1,000 acres of Shade has been grown in Conn-Mass. and over 75% has been raised by OJ Thrall Inc for General Cigar and by the Altadis Shade Tobacco Co.

Connecticut Broadleaf USA: Macanudo Maduro, Montecristo Media Noche, Munneimaker (all CT BDLF machine made,) Arganese Maduro, Excalibur Dark Knight, Nica Rustica, Reposado 96 Maduro, Ashton Maduro, Cohiba Black, Pioneer Valley Maduro, Don Rafael Maduro, some Gurkha Maduros, Casa de Garcia Maduro, Onyx, La Aroma de Cuba Maduro, Bahia Maduro, Perdomo Fresco Maduro and some other dark Perdomos, Palma Real Maduro, Cu-Avana Maduro, Havana Classico, Saint Luis Rey maduro, Perdomo Slow Aged, La Gloria Cubana Serie N, Backwoods and many more. Altadis Shade USA has set out over half their 2014 crop in Broadleaf in fields with wire and pole infrastructure for shade. Dark cigars are a big fad these days.

Connecticut Havana Seed 7: Victor Sinclair Connecticut Yankee, Partagas 1845 Extra Oscuro (might be from the Medio Tiempo field below,) Excalibur 1066, Xikar HC Maduro, Ramon Bueso Genesis, Punch Rare Corojo 10th Anniversary, and a few others

Conn. USA Habano Medio Tiempo: Partagas Black Label (General Cigar patented wrapper--only 20-30 acres raised each year in Windsor, Conn.)

Pennsylvania Broadleaf: Nish, Patel Brothers, 5 Vegas Gold Maduro, Diesel, Johnson Tiempo 56 and others

Other: MUWAT Genuine KY fire cured

Maybe Conn Shade USA--not certain: some CAO, some AVO, Excalibur--may have switched to Ecuador in the past year, Montecristo Original also may have recently switched to Ecuador, and maybe Nat Sherman Host too.

Ecuador "Fake" Conn Shade: all Oliva, Black Ops, B-Line Connecticut, Graycliff, Gran Habano Connecticut, all Victor Sinclair Connecticuts, Arganese natural, all Torano Connecticuts, Ave Maria Immaculata, Gurkha Connecticuts, CI Mistakes, Tabac Especiale, Acid, 5 Vegas Gold, Brocatus, all Romeo e Julieta Connecticuts, Man o War, Diamond Crown, EO Black Pearl Cobre, No 21, Reposado, Montecristo White, 1876 Reserve, Cargo, Palma Real natural, CI Legends Copper, all Davidoff, all Nat Sherman (with possible exception of Host,) Mark Twain, Rocky Patel Connecticut, Don Rafael, Xikar HC Connecticut, all Griffins, Nub Connecticut, Sinclair Primeros, Sinclair Connecticut, Magellan Dominicans, Joya del Jefe, Gispert, Villager Connecticut, Prof. Sila, Sinclair Cigarillos, C'est La Vie, Espinosa and many more

Uncertain: Free Cuba, Excalibur, Nat Sherman Host, Montecristo Original

Honduras-grown Conn Shade--not bad: Ramon Bueso Odyssey, Alac Bradley American Blend, Baccarat, La Gloria Cubana Artesanos Retro Especiale and a few others

USA Conn Broadleaf Binder, PA, CT Havana (HS):
Pioneer Valley, Macanudo Robust, all Punch, almost all Partagas, Ramon Bueso Genesis (HS,) all Hoyo de Monterey, all Excalibur, Sancho Panza natural and Extra Fuente, Rocky Patel Royale and many others.

If you want to know about a particular cigar, I'll try to answer your questions.

Charlie
 

CT Tobaccoman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
464
Points
28
Location
Southern New England
You are aware many of the brands you've listed are not from American owned companies.

I can assure you Ecuador Shade is real. It's as real as the "Indonesian" leaf grown in Connecticut.


Well, of course it is real, objectively speaking. It does indeed exist.

Cigar makers try to give the impression that their products are actually from the Connecticut Valley when they are not. That is what this thread is all about. Altadis and General own more Central American companies than one might think, but regardless of where the cigar maker is based, they still try to fool the consumer by dishonestly referring to "Connecticut shade" when it is objectively NOT shade from the Conn Valley. Foreign owned cigarmakers are the most deceitful, like the Patels, Perdomos, Olivas.

No Indonesian leaf has ever been grown successfully in the Connecticut Valley. Connecticut Shade and Havana were stolen from Cuba, Connecticut Broadleaf was stolen from Maryland. The early attempts at growing shade tobacco in Connecticut used Sumatra seed, but it was not successful, and a Cuban varietal was settled on within the first 10 years. Florida Shade growers may have had more luck with Sumatra seed.

When tobacco "migrates" to a new place, the seed from the migrant plants become a distinct strain in a few years. I don't know if Ecuador uses seed from the Conn Valley each year or whether they use seed from the Ecuador plants. If seed is used from plants grown in Ecuador, we should see a distinctly new wrapper type born in Ecuador from it's Conn Valley ancestor. All I see so far is a cheap, tasteless substitute.

But, I'm prejudiced. Peace.
 

FmGrowit

Head Honcho
Staff member
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
5,281
Points
113
Location
Freedom, Ohio, United States
The premise of your argument is exactly what this forum disproves.
When shade tobacco was first tried in Connecticut around 1900, they used the Sumatra seed, the TBN, I assume. It didn't work out well, the leaves were burned by the sun, even under the tent. By 1910, all Connecticut Shade was and still is a varietal from Cuba. In the 1950s, a company called American Sumatra was the world's largest shade tobacco growers, with farms in Conn., Mass., and Florida. Consolidated Cigar eventually monopolized the production of shade in the Conn. Valley by the 1970s, until they failed in 1982. Consolidated Cigar is back now, under the name Altadis. Probably 80% of USA-Conn shade is now grown or contracted by Altadis and General Cigar.

By your own admission, Connecticut Shade leaf is not from Connecticut, yet you criticize growers of the same seed in other countries as "fake". By your own standards, CT Shade is "fake" Cuban" tobacco. How is CT Shade then better or more qualified? We have forum members from all over the world who grow type specific (please read) varietals with great success outside of the indicated locales.

We here at FTT debunk ALL of the myths perpetuated by big tobacco on growing, curing and processing tobacco. I can assure you, CT Shade Leaf is grown all over the world and in some cases...with greater success than it is grown in Connecticut.

Pieces
 
Last edited:

Knucklehead

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
12,171
Points
113
Location
NE Alabama
I'm growing three Indonesian varieties in Alabama this year, Besuki, Timor, AST. I am growing for seed so did not see the need for a shade set up. The plants are not burning up in the sun.

I also have to disagree with your assertion that migrant seed becomes a new strain in a new location in a few years. I think that idea is a carry over from the days before the seed heads were bagged to keep the varieties pure.
 

DGBAMA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
4,418
Points
63
Location
NORTH ALABAMA
I think the idea of Charlie's post is getting mixed up here. He has provided us a list of cigars known to use (U.S. GROWN CT SHADE WRAPPERS), not saying that CT shade wrappers grown elsewhere in the world are not from the CT Shade variety, just that they are not U.S. grown.
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
23,931
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
F.D. Grave (Connecticut Valley Cigars) has many of their cigars manufactured in Pennsylvania. Their eponymous frontmark ("F.D. Grave") cigars are manufactured in Honduras. Their Cueto maduro cigars are made in Nicaragua.

As for Olivas, their wrappers are widely recognized as among the finest in the world. Ecuador (and Sumatra) are climatically ideal locations for wrapper production, because of the cloud conditions. Connecticut, on the other hand, requires the extensive, labor-intense contrivance of multi-acre tents to achieve similar conditions--like an Arab Emirate building a climate-controlled city.

The science of genetics blossomed after the shade tobacco trials in Connecticut. CT Shade was able to displace Sumatra wrapper supremacy in the American market partly as a result of prejudicial import duties enacted in order to salvage what was considered at the time to be an essential American industry.

Bob

EDIT:
I think the idea of Charlie's post is getting mixed up here. He has provided us a list of cigars known to use (U.S. GROWN CT SHADE WRAPPERS), not saying that CT shade wrappers grown elsewhere in the world are not from the CT Shade variety, just that they are not U.S. grown.
Identifying specific sources as "fake" is the issue.
 

CT Tobaccoman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
464
Points
28
Location
Southern New England
I just don't want to see a way of life that has been a big part of my life disappear. And maybe there are some smokers who will support American tobacco growers if given the chance and the honest choice.
 

CT Tobaccoman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
464
Points
28
Location
Southern New England
Maybe you are right about the seed.

My examples are that the types grown in Conn were taken from elsewhere, and over many years have become distinctly different varietals from their ancestors. But tobacco should mutate over time to a new environment, if local seed is used from year to year. Like, Ecuador Sumatra is very different from Sumatra, and the various Habanos are all a bit different. Conn Shade grown in Honduras is distinctly different from Conn or Ecuador shade leaf--toothier and darker. African flue cured Bright tobacco is very different form Canadian.

What does AST mean? All I know is that it stood for the American Sumatra Tobacco Corp., once the world's largest shade grower.

I'm glad that your tobacco is not burning in the sun. Ours does, every time.
 

CT Tobaccoman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
464
Points
28
Location
Southern New England
To All,

Sorry. "Fake" was always in quotation marks. Never meant that is was not genuine seed. The issue is the use of the Connecticut name to dishonestly sell cheaper products produced not in the US, to the detriment of American farmers. I am not a "free market" enthusiast. I am an old fashioned old man.

Yes, due to globalization, the Connecticut Shade industry has become a white elephant and is going the way of all former American industry--away. For 70 years, shade growers in Conn and Fla were protected by tariffs. America used to protect her industries. Now it all goes to the lowest bidder. I guess that is progress?

All I want to do here is help those who wish to find cigars made, in part, of USA grown tobacco. Everybody is still free to smoke whatever they want.

Regarding FD Graves, their Conn Broadleaf cigars are made mostly of USA Conn Broadleaf, regardless of where they are made.

Regarding Oliva--yes, they are great at what they do. I do not criticize them or anyone. I simply point out that Oliva uses exactly zero USA grown tobacco in their cigars, if you care, which you don't have to. OK?

There are no more big cigar factories in the US anymore, and I fear that soon there will be no US tobacco farms either. To me, that is a very unhappy thought.

Charley
 

FmGrowit

Head Honcho
Staff member
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
5,281
Points
113
Location
Freedom, Ohio, United States
Good posts. We usually challenge nubes to weed out the riff-raff (or just for shits and giggles).

Your experience is appreciated here.

Welcome to the forum
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
23,931
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
Yes. "Connecticut" is the name of a state in the US. It should be understood, however, that "Connecticut Shade" is the varietal name of a strain of Nicotiana tabacum, and is recognized as such by GRIN. If I grow it in Virginia, it's still Connecticut Shade. I'm not trying to deceive anyone by identifying it as CT Shade. If you grow Virginia Bright Leaf in Connecticut, it's still Virginia Bright Leaf, and you are not being fraudulent by identifying it as VA Bright Leaf. The name of the variety does not change when I mail some seed to South Africa.

At the present, there are folks in Cheddar, UK filing law suits against Wisconsin cheese makers for labeling their product as cheddar cheese. Eastern Europeans are likewise filing suit over the use of the name, "feta." It boils down to the difference between a geographical appellation that has come to be understood as a type of product, rather than a designation of immediate source.

Ancient Rome encountered the same problem with their famous red clay tile roofing material, sigillata. What should it be called when it is instead manufactured by barbarians?

With tobacco, the thousands of specific varietal names are already a morass of confusion, even if those names are correctly used. To make things worse, some seed vendors glibly invent "new and better" names for the seed they sell. It's a real mess. I can't imagine that the Olivas are attempting to fool anyone. They are correctly identifying the tobacco varieties that they grow within Ecuador and elsewhere.

At my current age (66 and climbing), I recognize that all things change. Although I truly enjoy traditional American cigars, made with American tobacco (e.g. CT Broadleaf, PA Red, Little Dutch, Glessnor--even burley and fire-cured), the American cigar consumer has determined that these should fade away, and be replaced by predominantly Caribbean-grown tobaccos, and Caribbean varieties. Major cigar marketeers (such as the dynamic duo of CI/Cigars.com) invent new boutique brands of the same Caribbean cigars on a monthly basis.

While the American cigar industry is fading, some folks--like members of this forum--have chosen to take control of their choices by not only purchasing whole leaf tobacco, but often planting, growing, curing, finishing and producing their own cigars at home. Marketeers be damned. Consumer trends be damned. By dispelling the mystique and intentional obfuscation of the industrial cigar business, we liberate ourselves, and transform our sweat equity into wonderful, unique, enjoyable stogies.

Bob
 

CT Tobaccoman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
464
Points
28
Location
Southern New England
Bob

Thank you for your thoughts. I am the same age, so we have seen the destruction of all things tobacco in the USA. On the Universal Leaf website, I noticed that the USA raises a mere fraction of cigarette tobacco. World demand could easily be satisfied by Africa and Asia, as world demand for cigar tobacco can easily be provided by Central and South America.

When I first started working in CT shade there were maybe 5-6 wrapper types in use. Now, there are over 100. I have heard about the the imminent crash of tobacco in the Valley all my life, and yet shade is still here and Broadleaf is approaching historic record acreage.

In the 1950s, production of sun grown Havana Seed ceased totally in the Valley, and Broadleaf shrank to a family farm cash crop. This happened when Homogenized Tobacco Leaf (HTL) was developed. Shade was at its peak then, so farmers adapted. Now, the situation is reversed--we are perhaps the smallest supplier of Conn Shade in the world, ironically, while Havana Seed and Broadleaf have made great recoveries.

A long time ago, the gov't bought into globalization and eliminated nearly all protective tariffs, which nurtured the 19th and 20th Century tobacco business in the US. The tobacco farmer is at the mercy of cut throat capitalism--no subsidies or protection for us. Producing a luxury, discretionary income product, the business has always been a roller coaster ride, and the grower has always been at the mercy of the cigarmaker as to the price received for his tobacco. That has not changed.

Connecticut farmers tried to improve that situation in the mid 20th Century when farmers were all either bought out or contracted to Consolidated Cigar, with the exception of Cullman Bros., which bought General Cigar in the 1960s. The collapse of AST (American Sumatra) in 1958 opened up new land. Even P. Lorrilard was here to grow wrapper for their Muriel cigar, and American Tobacco was here for their brands, like Corona Corona. These companies left after HTL was developed.

When Consolidated failed in 1978, the very dicey situation began and is continuing today, for shade.

Tobacco made the USA happen, in a sense. It was not until 1800 that cotton knocked tobacco to the number 2 spot in exports.

I hope that people here understand that all I want to accomplish is to steer those who wish to buy cigars containing some USA tobacco to it.

BTW, the Shade Tobacco Growers Association, at some time in the 20th Century, attempted to patent the term "Connecticut Shade," but found that you can't patent the name of a state. General Cigar, which now raises over half of shade in the CT Valley, has begun patenting certain new wrapper tobacco that they have developed, like the Medio Tiempo.

So, I stand corrected. It apparently is not technically dishonest to use the name of CT Shade when it is not raised in the US. But I believe that cigar marketers do disingenuously cash in on the "mystique," such as it is, of the Conn Valley's tobacco history.

For those interested I can add to the list: Las Cabrillas uses CT-USA wrapper on both the natural and maduro. Casa Blanca as well.

But, I found on the Hoyo de Monterrey website that the Excalibur natural has switched to an Ecuadorian CT seed wrapper very recently. Almost everywhere in catalogs, they re still identified as USA Connecticut, but that is no longer the case. Excalibur has retained the USA Conn Broadleaf binder, however.

In the Connecticut Valley today, Broadleaf is now the major tobacco crop. Shade is down to under 1,000 acres in the entire region. I suppose that there will continue to be a niche market for USA Conn Shade, and the Broadleaf production is healthy and increasing each year. This is fitting, in a way, since after giving up raising the "shoestring" tobacco in the mid 1800s, the CT Valley was dependent on the Broadleaf before the shade tobacco came along, and now it is so again.

Thanks for explaining the legal reality of the term "Connecticut shade," and for understanding what I am trying to do.

I will be careful in the future to not cast aspersions on any country or cigar. I will simply provide info for those who want the info I can provide.

Charlie
 

Knucklehead

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
12,171
Points
113
Location
NE Alabama
What does AST mean? All I know is that it stood for the American Sumatra Tobacco Corp., once the world's largest shade grower.

I'm glad that your tobacco is not burning in the sun. Ours does, every time.

You are correct. I believe they developed the variety. I have around 350 varieties of seed in my personal seed bank. It's hard to keep up with all of them. I'm growing out 78 varieties this year to refresh some older seed and to increase the number of seed so I can donate some new varieties to the FTT seed bank and share with the membership. Next year I will grow for leaf for myself.
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
23,931
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
I've sent out some AST seed for refresh of the Nicotiana Project seed donation, but I can't recall knowing that it was a Sumatra type. Interesting. I guess I'll have to do a parallel grow of AST alongside FL Sumatra in 2015.

Unlike CT Shade, which, in my hands, isn't useful as a wrapper when sun-grown (too small, too rugose), my FL Sumatra makes a lovely, flavorful, sun-grown, light brown wrapper.

Bob
 

Knucklehead

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
12,171
Points
113
Location
NE Alabama
I've sent out some AST seed for refresh of the Nicotiana Project seed donation, but I can't recall knowing that it was a Sumatra type. Interesting. I guess I'll have to do a parallel grow of AST alongside FL Sumatra in 2015.

Unlike CT Shade, which, in my hands, isn't useful as a wrapper when sun-grown (too small, too rugose), my FL Sumatra makes a lovely, flavorful, sun-grown, light brown wrapper.

Bob

How is your Timor? Mine tried to die at every opportunity, but I have two survivors left. I may need some photos of yours come bagging time.
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
23,931
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
How is your Timor? Mine tried to die at every opportunity, but I have two survivors left. I may need some photos of yours come bagging time.
I have a single bed with 8 Bezuki and 8 Timor. They are doing okay, but not great. I'm hoping they are late bloomers.

Bob
 

forumdotabaco

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
434
Points
0
Location
Portugal
Lol Timor? ok, is that a strain from Timor or just named Timor
my city is plenty of people from Timor.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top