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Pod Boring Caterpillar

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skychaser

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We found the source of the mysterious "bore holes" some of us have seen on seed pods. I remember seeing some conversation on this here, but I don't think anyone knew exactly what caused it. The mature pods often look fairly normal on the outside except it looks like someone has drilled a 1/8" hole in it. On the inside there is nothing, like all the seeds were sucked out. We have only found about 2-3 dozen pods over the years with these holes in them, usually all on one or two plants.

Last week there was a short lived break in our summer heat and my wife spent the better part of 3 days out photographing plants. We are working with a gentleman in Nova Scotia who is writing a book on nicotianas, with a focus on their differing flowers. He has around 80 varieties he has researched and photographed thus far and we are providing him with as many more as we can. His book probably won't make the best seller list, but we feel honored to be a part of it.

Anyways.. After removing a bag to get a photo, my wife noticed this little guy with his head stuck in a pod. Something must have depositied an egg on the bud before it was bagged. We picked the 2 pods he was feeding on and put him in a jar to see what happens. He bored away happily for the first few days converting the pods insides into large amounts of bug poop. By day 5 the pods were looking pretty sad and the caterpillar was just sitting in the bottom of the jar in a half circle. I had to poke him a little and make him move just to see if he was dead or not. I picked a few new pods and put them in the jar, and within 5 minutes it had crawled up onto the biggest pod and had its head buried inside. The last photo is 6 days after the first ones. You can see how much this little critter has grown in that time.

Its moved to a new pod today and seems happy living in a cheese wiz jar on our window sill. I haven't had time to search through some bug sites to try to identify him yet. Maybe someone here knows exactly what it is.
 

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Brown Thumb

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I had lots of them last year, none this year so far. Fingers Crossed.
 

deluxestogie

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Knucklehead

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Last year I found a few with the coloration seen in Sky's photos. This year I have found about three solid yellow ones. The yellow ones are really hard to find. I'm spraying Spinosad on the bud heads through the bud bags and that seems to have taken care of the ones in the patch. No sign of them there. However, I keep forgetting to spray my pet plants in the buckets, and that is where I am finding the yellow worms. When I see seed scattered in the bottom of the bud bag, I know to search carefully for the offender and give him a good squish.

I have noticed that the three I found were on plants that I had to move the bud bag higher up the plant, above the beginning of the crown. By doing this, the bottom of the bag where I tie my zip tie is trapping two to three segments of stalk where it has separated into different flower heads. This may leave an opening for a really small worm to weasel it's way inside the bag. Bob's huge bag size makes sense in that regard since he can keep his bags down on the main stalk only, making a better seal.
 

skychaser

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I thought bud worms eat the growing buds as they appear. ?? These only attack seed pods after they have bloomed and developed a nice fat green pod. The flower heads always appear normal in every respect except for one small holed drilled in them and they contain no seed. In the past we have only discovered the damage during the seed harvest. Haven't seen any in two years and this is the only one we have found this year. Ya sure that's a bud worm? What ever he is, thank gawd he rare around here. lol
 

Knucklehead

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deluxestogie

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Bob, both links go to the UFL page. Same page.
Thanks,
Fixed above.

They are budworms. The youngest instars wander over the growth tip and do horrible damage to the young leaflets. Later instars go for the seed pods, and look like the ones in your photos. The very tiny ones (note the dimensions given in my 1st reference) are tiny enough to sneak up though a fairly snug ties around a single stalk.

Bob
 

skychaser

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hmmm I've never seen the slightest bit of leaf damage on the new growth or the buds. I looked over the plant we found him on yesterday and it looks perfectly fine. So do its neighbors. In fact, we have never had any leaf damage from insects, other than the occasional grasshopper eating part of a leaf. Haven't even seen one damaged leaf from them this year. There's lots of hoppers around now, but they aren't bothering the tobacco.
 

Knucklehead

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I just found another one of the yellow caterpillars inside a bud bag tonight with a flashlight. About an inch long and the color of over ripe tobacco leaf. That's four in the past week. I saw seed laying in the bottom of the bag and started searching. I have no idea what type of caterpillar it is, but it is definitely eating holes in the seed pods. I haven't tried to remove one from the bag yet for fear of losing him. I just squish him inside the bag and leave him. If I find one in a bag with a smaller flower head I'll remove him for photos.

Sky, you are one lucky man if you're not getting leaf damage. I've been attacked by slugs, worms, grasshoppers, aphids, and no telling what else. I'm constantly losing ground to the critters in spite of spraying Spinosad and soapy water by the gallons. My patch looks like it was machine gunned with one inch slugs.(the lead ones, not the snail type) I've resigned myself to letting the hoppers have their way with me, provided they don't eat over a pound of leaf.
 

ArizonaDave

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I found a tiny brown worm on my tobacco INSIDE my house. How'd he get there? Quickly killed it, he only ate ⅓ of a leaf before he was destroyed. No others were found........yet. We do have butterflies and moths at night outside. Maybe one flew in? Who knows........he was a little brown one.
 

JessicaNicot

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The infamous "Bud Worm". They have been quite a problem for me this year.

yeah, they are the reason we spray our heads with Tracer before we bag them. they have a voracious appetite and a single one can destroy at least 50 capsules on a head. they turn into a roughly 1" cream colored moth with a red button on its head. I know because sometimes they fly out of our seed bags when we go to shell the seed in the fall.
 

deluxestogie

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Sky,
My take (only my impression) is that if the budworm egg hatches before there is an inflorescence to nibble on, the tiny, 1st instar larva simply munches on the growth tip, damaging any forming leaves. A single bite on a nascent leaf leaves a 4" oval divot in the mature leaf. It is forced to eat its broccoli, before getting any dessert.

If, instead, the egg hatches when there are blossoms...well...hurray! It goes directly for the buds.

Bob
 

skychaser

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If, instead, the egg hatches when there are blossoms...well...hurray! It goes directly for the buds.

You could be right Bob. But I don't think what we have is the same bug you folks east of the Rockies have. Mrs. Sky and I did a lot of searching and reading and looking at picts lat night. According to everything we read, the eastern tobacco bud worm is not found in our area. And of the hundred photos we saw of the worm, none looked quite like ours. There seems to be a lot of color variation in them and all look very similar, and very similar to our bug, but we didn't see a single one that had a black face.

We also saw lots of picts of leaf damage. LOTS of leaf damage! And it seems they have an appetite for more than just tobacco. I saw several photos of them eating Petunias too. Between my wife and sis next door, they must have a 1000 petunias. Never seen a single worm on them either. Gawd. I can sure see why you some of you folks have to use pesticides! If I had to face that, I'd probably just give up and grow something else.

I think what we have is a close cousin of your eastern bud worm, but thankfully not the same animal. We have never seen any leaf damage, this year, or the two other times we have found pods with holes bored in them. I wish we had a pict of pods we have found in the past during harvest. The only sign a bug has been there is a perfectly round 1/8 diameter hole in the empty dry pod. I didn't see one photo that looked like what we have. The closest resemblance I saw was of boll worms on cotton. If this critter lives long enough to turn into a moth, maybe we can pin down exactly which cousin of the eastern bud worm he is.

We don't have horn worms here, or squash bugs, japanese beetles, snails, slugs or any other the critters I see ya'll talking about. We did have aphids on one plant in the greenhouse this year (not tobacco) but one shot of pyrethrum took care of them. Don once said it sounded like we lived in tobacco growers nirvana here. I think he was right. :D
 

JessicaNicot

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does the university of Washington have a pest ID center or some extension people you could contact? if it's an emerging pest issue, they would be the ones who would want to know. it wouldn't surprise me if it is some sort of climate change associated northward range expansion.
 

skychaser

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Dunno about U of W, but WSU certainly would. Good suggestion. My WSDA agent is coming soon to do our annual field inspection. I was expecting him this week. I'll let him have a look at it and see what he thinks too.
 

rustycase

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I've had the problem, here and there, over the last number of years, Paul...
I suspect Bob might be correct, somewhere in all that Latin.

instars?

bieb-dog.jpg

miley-cyrus-lights-up-ema.jpg

I dunno abt dem...

This year, as last, I am not saving any seed and all suckers and buds are axed upon notice.
But I've had a few plants with the small caterpillar critters.
Got one today, but the bluejays got him out of the plastic cup before I could take it's picture...

In the past, I have seen those tiny holes in a dried seed pod, and nothing but frass inside the pod when I crushed it open...

Question is, how long will those eggs remain viable?
Q2 might be, if I freeze my seed stock for 10 days, will it confound the eggs, and not the seed?

Good luck
rc
 
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