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Wrapper questions

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USHOG

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I am having trouble with picking the correct leaf for my wrappers. I am getting a tunnel burn on most with the wrapper turning black on the outside of the cigar and not turning into ash. I have even tried drying them out on top of my dehumidifier for several hours and have let a few sit for months but I am getting a few that burn good but dark ash and the majority are tunneling even when dry or I think they are dry. I have been trying to use lower leaves that are thin but most of my leaf is very thick. This tobacco is from 2012. I am using Havana 608. My question is what can I do to make a better wrapper either on the growing end or processing end. I need to learn how to pick the wrapper leaf from what I am growing that will burn good with a lighter color ash..
 

deluxestogie

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Poor burn is often the result of chloride in the fertilizer (or city water). This is sometimes identified as muriate of potash. [Since most folks don't plan on burning their tomatoes, some vegetable garden fertilizers are not clear as to the source of the 'K'.] Also, any fertilizer late in the season can result in thicker leaf and slower burn (in addition to difficulty color-curing).

One thing you can try is to use a good-burning binder, and make sure the components of the cigar are not in too high a case when you roll the cigar:
  • wrapper: high case (damp and floppy)
  • binder: medium case (fully flexible and quiet)
  • filler: low case (just barely enough moisture to prevent the leaf from shattering)
The filler blend should include some lower leaf for better burn (but not some of your poorly burning Havana), since mid to upper leaf sometimes burns slowly. Leaf that has an oily sheen may burn like a candle.

To test the combustion of leaf, hold a segment of low-case lamina horizontally, and touch it with a glowing cherry in the center. Try this with several varieties and stalk positions to compare the values.

Bob
 

DGBAMA

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On the growing end, Chloride/chlorine content aboth water and fertilizer are known to negatively effect burn qualities of the leaf. Harvesting earlier, mature but not ripe (full sized but not yellowing or heavily textured) will give a thinner cured leaf. Kilning your existing leaf may help burn properties, but not a sure thing.
What are you using for binder? Could be the issue too.

Have you tried different bunching techniques with the same result? My only tunnel burns came from poor bunching, most air was traveling down the middle, the outer filler was too dense and insulated the wrapper from burning properly.

Just some thoughts from another beginner.
 

deluxestogie

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That's a good point about kilning. Since it's 2012 leaf, it's got a bit of age, which helps. But I've had leaf from a number of varieties that simply contain too high a concentration of albuminous proteins to burn well, even after a couple of years of shed hanging. 30 days in the kiln remedied that problem. Typically, leaf that needs to be kilned smells different ("raw") from kilned leaf, or leaf that won't need kilning (e.g. 1 year old burley).

Bob
 

ArizonaDave

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That's a good point about kilning. Since it's 2012 leaf, it's got a bit of age, which helps. But I've had leaf from a number of varieties that simply contain too high a concentration of albuminous proteins to burn well, even after a couple of years of shed hanging. 30 days in the kiln remedied that problem. Typically, leaf that needs to be kilned smells different ("raw") from kilned leaf, or leaf that won't need kilning (e.g. 1 year old burley).

Bob

A double Piloto Cubano double binder works well for me to keep the burn even. You can get it at http://www.WholeLeafTobacco.com
 

USHOG

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My smoke rooms humidity is around 50%. I am not using binders. I am rolling 4.5" X 40 cigars with no binder. Maybe I should try using a binder to help out. We are on city water so it could be chlorine I hope not cause I really can not change that part other than a filter of some sort. I will check the fertilizers I use from now on, but I mainly use compost and ashes and worm casting teas. I am not an organic grower but I like how my garden grows using these fertilizers. I will kiln the 2012 Havana next run and try to find a better burning wrapper.

bunching techniques well I am having this problem with scraps I know it is the wrapper that is giving me trouble because I used this same scrap with a 120 mil rice paper and it burned slow and great.

Thank you all for the information
 

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A charcoal filter will remove the chlorine. Some types can be back flushed to remove the accumulated chlorine in the filter so the filter can be reused.
 

USHOG

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I am going to look into a filter for next years grow. I do not know much about water filters, does anyone know a good brand or a specific filter that would work.
 

USHOG

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I just found a water filter from amazom that looks like it should remove chlorine and a few other chemicals in the water and it connects through the water hose so it looks pretty easy to use. Thank you for all of the information yall are a huge help. The only thing that sucks is that I will have to wait a year or more to see if this helps burn quality. LOL
 

Gdaddy

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In the old tobacco cook books they suggested using potassium nitrate (salt peter) be applied to the tobacco as a burning agent.

I would try using a thin, easy burning binder layer like Az Dave suggested. Should be a big help.
 

CT Tobaccoman

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That's a good point about kilning. Since it's 2012 leaf, it's got a bit of age, which helps. But I've had leaf from a number of varieties that simply contain too high a concentration of albuminous proteins to burn well, even after a couple of years of shed hanging. 30 days in the kiln remedied that problem. Typically, leaf that needs to be kilned smells different ("raw") from kilned leaf, or leaf that won't need kilning (e.g. 1 year old burley).

Bob

This is a good point. Cigar tobacco generally needs some fermentation (sweat) after curing to remove ammonia among many other things. The leaf is thinner and more flexible after fermentation.
 

CT Tobaccoman

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I just found a water filter from amazom that looks like it should remove chlorine and a few other chemicals in the water and it connects through the water hose so it looks pretty easy to use. Thank you for all of the information yall are a huge help. The only thing that sucks is that I will have to wait a year or more to see if this helps burn quality. LOL

Not necessarily. If you can get a kiln arrangement put together you might be able to improve the tobacco that you have. With the tobacco in "medium" case let it sweat at around 85 degrees for 10 days or so. Rig up a way so that it doesn't dry out, like a pan of water inside, and be able to take the temperature of the tobacco inside the middle of the pile. If it reaches 100 degrees, re-arrange the inside leaves to the outside and vice versa. If you haven't sweated it already, this can only improve it.

On the other hand, I have bought commercial cigars that did that tunneling thing and burned very unevenly, and the reason is usually poor bunching--usually a stem or other sort of clog inside.
 

USHOG

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I will ferment it when the kiln is empty in 2 weeks. This is the second priming of my havanas from this year. I have 4 more loads to go so I am going to make a bigger kiln out of this fridge soon, but until then it will be running. I am planning on connecting the freezer and the fridge to enlarge it a little. I am not that excited about using anything on the tobacco unless there is no other way.

garden-update-003.jpg
 

Knucklehead

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In the old tobacco cook books they suggested using potassium nitrate (salt peter) be applied to the tobacco as a burning agent.

I would try using a thin, easy burning binder layer like Az Dave suggested. Should be a big help.

I've read tobacco books that suggested horm worms could reach the size of a man's arm. I think those critters are what I would be burning with salt peter. Black powder is also fairly combustible. If still breathing, please post your results. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_nitrate
 

BarG

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I am having trouble with picking the correct leaf for my wrappers. I am getting a tunnel burn on most with the wrapper turning black on the outside of the cigar and not turning into ash. I have even tried drying them out on top of my dehumidifier for several hours and have let a few sit for months but I am getting a few that burn good but dark ash and the majority are tunneling even when dry or I think they are dry. I have been trying to use lower leaves that are thin but most of my leaf is very thick. This tobacco is from 2012. I am using Havana 608. My question is what can I do to make a better wrapper either on the growing end or processing end. I need to learn how to pick the wrapper leaf from what I am growing that will burn good with a lighter color ash..

USHOG, If you purchased any bulk sacks of fertilizer local than you definitely added muriate of potash to your grow. I have called practicly every supplier in Texas trying to find fertilizer without it and no luck. It will cause the exact problem you are experiencing as far as bad burn and black ash. It makes your baccy grow wonderfull but smokes like a turtle on downers. slow to no burn..
 

USHOG

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I used triple 13 at the beginning of 2012 so that could have been the culprit of the bad burn from that years wrappers. Well at least I know what the problem is and how to improve upon burn issues for next year. I used mainly compost last year and this year so with a new water filter to remove chlorine from the tap water and to make sure to check all fertilizers I might get a better wrapper next grow. That's good news to my ears. I am hoping this years crop burns a little better but I will have to wait and see. I didn't have trouble with last years havanas and that's what was confusing me. I want to thank you all for the information.
 
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