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Volado... one of the three main components...missing

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Gdaddy

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Missing from the selection at WLT. One of the three major components of a cigar. Volado. Having said that...let me ask... of all the videos on you tube how many professional rollers are using three components of leaves one of which is Volado? Maybe all of them.


Volado, seco, ligero. The three horseman. In the video posted by rainmax of the Cuban woman she is using Volado for combustion. A very mild leaf that burns well. It's also very good for smoothing out a cigar since it's so mild.

The problem may be is the way it's perceived. Everyone is searching for the next full flavored tobacco and Volado is BORING. All it does is burn well and it's not very flavorful and therefore may be viewed as not a very important component.


It may be hard to sell if people don't understand it's a vital ingredient to put in a cigar.


How come no one ever asks for it or talks about it? Doesn't anyone use it? It should be in almost every cigar.
 

ArizonaDave

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Missing from the selection at WLT. One of the three major components of a cigar. Volado. Having said that...let me ask... of all the videos on you tube how many professional rollers are using three components of leaves one of which is Volado? Maybe all of them.


Volado, seco, ligero. The three horseman. In the video posted by rainmax of the Cuban woman she is using Volado for combustion. A very mild leaf that burns well. It's also very good for smoothing out a cigar since it's so mild.

The problem may be is the way it's perceived. Everyone is searching for the next full flavored tobacco and Volado is BORING. All it does is burn well and it's not very flavorful and therefore may be viewed as not a very important component.


It may be hard to sell if people don't understand it's a vital ingredient to put in a cigar.


How come no one ever asks for it or talks about it? Doesn't anyone use it? It should be in almost every cigar.

Really not sure. I've been using the Piloto Cubano Seco double binder. Sure seems to help the burn. So I guess my need for Volado has been replaced by the Piloto thin leaf, besides, it's mild and tastes good in a blend. Haven't found anything it clashes with either.
 

webmost

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It may well be that some of these other leaves not specifically labeled as seco or ligero are in fact from the bottom of the plant, and therefore volado. I dunno.

I can tell you that in my sampling of contest entries submitted by FLT members so far, burn problems are a killer issue. I have another review I should post up right now, from Big Dog, of a stick that just would not light long enough to get two puffs in a row. I have it sitting in the garage now, hoping it will dry out more in a few days and burn better.

But note this: the worst burns I have seen are not made from WLT leaf. They are made from home grown leaf, where, you would suppose, the roller could easily have used any part of the plant he chose. Especially where the wrapper is thick as shoe leather and apparently glued on with a half pint of schmoo. Just can't get those things to light.

This is my conclusion from my sampling so far. I still have more sticks to go.

It's an odd use of the word "volado" isn't it? Literally, it means "flown". Why would flown be used to describe the bottom leaves?
 

moscca

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I have been thinking also about this. I think the seco is more or less a volado leaf.
I have absolutely no more draw issues with my latest cigars, since I keep them in my humidor for a week.
It is amazing how well they smoke, even rolled VERY tight. They produce tons of smoke. I compare them with the 10$+ cigars.
No more relights or touch up's.
Something that helps a lot is an idea that I got on a card with my latest cigar purchase. If a cigar smokes not straight, hold the part that burns faster up. The smoke rising cools that part of the cigar. Before I was doing it the other way around.



Jan.
 

deluxestogie

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In English, the bottom leaves are often referred to as "fliers" or "fliers and trash." If you need to refer to them in Spanish, then "volado."

Many of the issues of burn, when using properly finished cigar leaf of any stalk position, is related to the desire to create a visually perfect cigar. In that effort, many novice cigar rollers use filler leaf that is in too high a case (it rolls out more smoothly), and then squeeze it into a cigar mold. I can get good combustion using nothing but dark, thick tip leaf ("corona" for the Spanish buffs), but the filler has to be in low case. (If it doesn't crack a little bit when rolled, it's in too high a case.)

I'm not opposed to rolling truly beautiful cigars. But for a novice roller, draw and smokability may be a more reasonable objective for the first few hundred cigars. Just don't show them to your brother-in-law and your friends. Smoke them yourself.

Webmost's contest to create an attractive cigar, in a particular size and shape no less, posed a serious challenge, especially for first-time rollers. I've been rolling 3 to 5 cigars a day for years now, but still find the Punch "Champion" to be a tricky project. I applaud his contest, though I am inclined to be less critical of their smoking qualities, given the experience level of the participants. Rolling a good smoke doesn't require all that much experience, but rolling a good smoke in a specific size and shape--and one that also is photogenic--is a demanding challenge.

In the past, I've suggested forgoing the use of a cigar mold for the first few hundred cigars, and forgetting about industry-compatible techniques for closing the head. Yes, you can learn those methods, but why not get to the point where you can consistently roll a good smoke, before emphasizing the cosmetics? I do know the answer to that question. Each of us is proud to have learned the skill required to produce a cigar with our own hands, and are eager to show off our cigars.

Case. Case. Case. Since most of us are not intending to sell our cigars to the Aficionado crowd, tobacconist shelf visual appeal can wait until we can roll a good smoke, regardless of the leaf position of the filler components.

So...although I usually have fliers and trash leaf available (since I grow much of my cigar leaf), it doesn't play much of a role in whether or not my cigars burn adequately. It might be fun to purchase a pound of imported "volado" from WLT, just to explore the difference, if you can't grow your own.

Bob
 

Matty

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I may be wrong but FMGROWIT may have mentioned that his seco tobaccos include volado leaves as they had not been sorted out by the producer/supplier.
 

SmokesAhoy

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Yeah the Nicaraguan from the GB was for seco and viso and those are mid to low positions. That being said I found the right blend to be about 2/3 seco to 1/3 viso for me. It would be interesting to play with the ligero and corona but viso is already really robust stuff. A pound of those leaves would last a while for me I'm sure.
 

FmGrowit

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I've contacted all of my sources and none of them offer Volado in any type of long fill cigar tobacco. One of the companies I deal with has warehouses all over the world and is regarded as one of the largest leaf suppliers in the world...and they don't have Volado long fill.

This topic has come up before and I remember another supplier telling me that any lower leaves that aren't too beat up are simply called Seco.

I suppose I should take some responsibility for the poor burn some get with fresh rolled cigars because of the way the tobacco is shipped. I ship the tobacco in low/medium case so it doesn't crumble in transit. This also allows the tobacco to be shipped in a bag opposed to a box which reduces overall cost.

The best solution to a poor burn is giving your stick time to cure. Stored in a humidor at 70/70 for at least a few weeks should solve the problem. Of course there are a lot of variables involved (moisture content of the wrapper, how tight the cigar is rolled, how tightly packed the humidor is, etc.).
 

Gdaddy

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I started to think about volado as having a twofold purpose. Not only the improvement of burn quality but the additional advantage of introducing the mildest leaf possible.

The problem to be solved is how to tone down the cigar. Let's face it... how to ramp up the flavor is NOT a problem. I have no way to ramp it down. Even the Piloto seco rolled as a puro is still very 'bright' flavored.

No need for a varied selection but having just one volado available could make improvements across the board if people take the time to understand why and how to use it.

A chefs cabinet is full of spices but the soup he makes consists mostly of plain old chicken stock. It carries the flavor. We don't have any 'chicken stock'.
 

deluxestogie

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Most of the milder Dominican, factory cigars use Dominican seco as the preponderance of the blend, though the specific varieties differ. A puro of generic Dominican seco is fairly mild and bland. One strip of just about anything else will dominate the flavor, and strengthen it.

I agree with you that strong and flavorful is much easier than smooth and mild. The group buy a year ago landed me 10 pounds of Nicaragua seco and 10 pounds of Nicaragua viso. (The technical term for that situation is "hog heaven.") The seco was gone in about 3 months. I'm just now down to the last of the viso (typically using 1 leaf of it per large cigar). For condiment tobacco, I have a couple of dozen varieties and stalk levels to select from, but the basis filler always runs short.

Many folks find Dominican seco to be uninteresting, but that's its lot in life. It burns well, and generates plenty of smoke. It's up to the added condiment tobacco to steer it to the strength and flavor you prefer. The wrapper and binder can, of course, add to or diminish the strength and flavor.

Bob
 

CT Tobaccoman

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Two things.

1. What about viso? Is that the same as secco?

2. I'm not good at all at making cigars, just starting to learn, but I discovered that putting half a leaf of regular burley in the filler really helps the combustion. I have made some really ugly cigars that draw as easily as drinking a glass of water and give big clouds of smoke without having to suck hard on it. I deliberately keep them kind of loose and leave plenty of space for the smoke to travel. Lots of easy smoke is important to me. I really hate to have to suck and suck to get even a partial mouthful of smoke, and a lot of commercial "premiums" are like that, as we all know, and it is common for home mades to be like that.

To me, for the cigars that I make, I don't care what they look like much as long as they burn easy and reasonably evenly, draw easy and give a lot of smoke. A bit of burley or even bright and a more loose than tight roll can make a big difference in combustibility and it doesn't seem to change the taste. Good tobacco and good draw. I figure that nobody is paying me to make it pretty, but it's not worth the effort if it smokes poorly.
 

CT Tobaccoman

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BTW, some wrapper tobacco that is primed gets primed 5-6 times. Conn Shade is like that--even 7 pickings sometimes, the 7th being all the leaves left from the top over 14 inches long. Depending on whether 2 or 3 leaves are taken each time around, which changes for unknown reasons year to year. So there is more to it than volado, secco, ligero. Don't know what viso is as far as its position on the plant, but I have hard of some upper ligero referred to as corona (crown)
 

moscca

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I'm new in rolling cigars, but if it where not for the molds, maybe I would have giving up rolling.
I tried first without mold, and my cigar were barely or non smokable.
For my it is very important that a cigar draws good. If not i can not enjoy it and that is all what it is about for me.
Since I use molds my cigars improved completely.
You can have the best leaves, well balanced but when it is a pain in the ass to smoke, I'm not enjoining it, whether I rolled it my self or not.
I agree with Gdaddy that it is harder to balance a cigar then rolling it. I'm talking rolling with a mold.


Jan.

Sorry if I'm hijacking this tread.

Maybe later on I'll go back to rolling without a mold, don't know, maybe for the challenge.
 

webmost

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I've been rolling 3 to 5 cigars a day for years now,

a DAY! What, are you like the long lost great-grandson of Mark Twain? I maybe smoke 5 cigars a week, if I can find the time. Holy Hannah. How can I get to be you?

Starting this late in life, only smoking four or five a week, I can never hope to achieve your proficiency. Fellers, I nominate deluxe for high sachem of the guild.
 

ArizonaDave

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I still like the burning qualities of the Piloto Cubano Seco. Have had no burning problems at all when I use it as a double binder, even though sometimes I put a binder over that. There is another leaf that is also excellent is Habana 2000. Very thin, very stretchy, nice even burn. It is a great mellow wrapper, and is really good as a binder and wrapper. It is another that I'll always keep on hand as long as it's in stock.
 
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