DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
Dual heat sources, hope it helps. I have avoided the hi tech stuff too, it was done with fires, for gosh sake. I try not to over complicate.
Trials and tribulations of my first attempt
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Bex
Well-Known Member
Ah, I had read this already, early on in my travels here - actually, this is where I saw the idea of using the pins in the slats of wood for hanging the leaves. I used the idea, as it was pretty easy for me to do. But then, I got to the heat sink, the diagrams and a bit of technical stuff...that's where I stopped reading, but this time I persevered. I only wish I am 1/4 as successful with my first season at flue curing. Your leaves looked great! And tons of helpful info in there, as well. That vent you made with the fan looks like it would be a real asset. Of course, I only had a few leaves in the freezer for my first experiment, but I found the venting a bit of a problem. With the freezer door vented (just using a small wedge in the door, the leaves closest to the wedge seemed to dry out, but the leaves along the rear of the freezer (near the hinges) didn't dry out at all, and it's those leaves that have 'survived' to this point. I am wondering how this will translate to a freezer full of leaves, more humidity, leaves in the back getting more of that additional humidity, and the mystery of how the leaves in the front will react to the venting/more humidity. If I read the thread correctly (and there was so much info in there that I may be mistaken) it seems that your vent is really just circulating the air within the closed chamber - is that correct - that it is not open to the outside air at all??
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
Fan is for circulation within the chamber to keep temps even. It pulls the rising hot air from top to bottom. Vent is a simple hole in the top with a "damper" to open and close. During yellowing, I do not vent at all unless rh goes over 95. Target range is 90-95%.
You may find that if you toss an old quilt over the freezer, the temp will rise more rapidly.
This season, I've kept my Crockpot set to 'high' for all the time that it's running. (Since my thermostat's lowest setting is 120ºF, I run the yellowing phase with seedling heat mats, and the Crockpot unplugged. At the end of my yellowing, I remove the heat mats, then plug in the Crockpot to the thermostat.) The 'high' setting simply utilizes more wattage, so you get a faster temp rise.
Bob
This season, I've kept my Crockpot set to 'high' for all the time that it's running. (Since my thermostat's lowest setting is 120ºF, I run the yellowing phase with seedling heat mats, and the Crockpot unplugged. At the end of my yellowing, I remove the heat mats, then plug in the Crockpot to the thermostat.) The 'high' setting simply utilizes more wattage, so you get a faster temp rise.
Bob
Bex
Well-Known Member
Of course, my 'trial run' was an effort to recognize all the quirks that will be specific to my set up. I think that, for the next run (and I will have received my hygrometer by then) I will do this with the freezer door closed - there will be very slight 'venting' as the electrical cord for the crockpot just comes in through the top of the freezer, so the door doesn't completely shut fully at that area (but the opening is only about 1/4 inch in that small area). I wonder about the high and low settings of the crockpot. On the one hand, getting the temps up very gradually (as the low setting would do) would be somewhat similar to the 'procedure' where you are hiking temps up gradually over the course of 10 hours or so. I imagine that the low setting will do this (again, my problem was that I expected the temps to rise similar to the way it would do on a stove). When my first 'run' is completed, I am going to set the crockpot on low, with the freezer shut, and confirm that it will reach that 165F temp on the low setting.
My 'yellowing' phase on this run was not entirely successful, and logically so - I have no window in the freezer, and was forever running to it, peeking in (and so screwing around with the temp/humidity), etc. I also hung those poor 14 leaves (and they weren't mature to start with) spaced far apart, so they did not have the benefit of their neighbor's moisture, heat, etc., I vented the freezer too much (wrongly assuming that you needed to vent in order for convection to occur), and thereby noticed that the leaves that were furthest away from the vent (actually the leaves running along the rear of the door where the hinges are) yellowed better. I was also pretty impatient!!! I have read somewhere here on the forum that, if the moisture becomes too great (and I now assume that this is what the venting is for...to release the moisture???) just open the door for a few seconds to let it escape...???? Sounds doable....
(I wonder how the can cozy would perform, or if there would have been any differences, had you not 'packed' it as fully - would the procedure have been any different if you had hung, say, 5 leaves spaced out in the can; if there would have been a different moisture content; if water in the crockpot would have been a necessity to bump up the moisture from a small amount of leaves to keep them from drying, etc)
All in all, however, I am pleased with what has occurred and what I have learned during this trial run. And REALLY pleased to have found this forum and all the information on it. My first run is almost finished - I have bumped the temp up to the stem drying stage this morning, and am looking forward to seeing/tasting the end product.
I also have another mini experiment going on here - I still have 30 small tobacco plants sitting in pots and trays - my tunnel is full (about 100 plants stuffed in there, planted about 1 foot apart at most, out of necessity - from my 'gardening' background, I think that they may actually mature/ripen faster than if they were planted at a proper spacing. With my vegetables, at least, due to the competition that occurs during overcrowding, plants tend to 'mature' and flower faster if they are close to their neighbors - maybe - or maybe not - this is so). In any event, and yes, tomorrow is Sept 1 - I am going to plant these additional 30 plants outside in the garden, and see what they do. I rarely, if ever, get frost here, and many of my vegetables continue to grow throughout the winter. I read somewhere that if you can grow cabbage, you can grow tobacco...??? I have cabbage outside all year round.
My 'yellowing' phase on this run was not entirely successful, and logically so - I have no window in the freezer, and was forever running to it, peeking in (and so screwing around with the temp/humidity), etc. I also hung those poor 14 leaves (and they weren't mature to start with) spaced far apart, so they did not have the benefit of their neighbor's moisture, heat, etc., I vented the freezer too much (wrongly assuming that you needed to vent in order for convection to occur), and thereby noticed that the leaves that were furthest away from the vent (actually the leaves running along the rear of the door where the hinges are) yellowed better. I was also pretty impatient!!! I have read somewhere here on the forum that, if the moisture becomes too great (and I now assume that this is what the venting is for...to release the moisture???) just open the door for a few seconds to let it escape...???? Sounds doable....
(I wonder how the can cozy would perform, or if there would have been any differences, had you not 'packed' it as fully - would the procedure have been any different if you had hung, say, 5 leaves spaced out in the can; if there would have been a different moisture content; if water in the crockpot would have been a necessity to bump up the moisture from a small amount of leaves to keep them from drying, etc)
All in all, however, I am pleased with what has occurred and what I have learned during this trial run. And REALLY pleased to have found this forum and all the information on it. My first run is almost finished - I have bumped the temp up to the stem drying stage this morning, and am looking forward to seeing/tasting the end product.
I also have another mini experiment going on here - I still have 30 small tobacco plants sitting in pots and trays - my tunnel is full (about 100 plants stuffed in there, planted about 1 foot apart at most, out of necessity - from my 'gardening' background, I think that they may actually mature/ripen faster than if they were planted at a proper spacing. With my vegetables, at least, due to the competition that occurs during overcrowding, plants tend to 'mature' and flower faster if they are close to their neighbors - maybe - or maybe not - this is so). In any event, and yes, tomorrow is Sept 1 - I am going to plant these additional 30 plants outside in the garden, and see what they do. I rarely, if ever, get frost here, and many of my vegetables continue to grow throughout the winter. I read somewhere that if you can grow cabbage, you can grow tobacco...??? I have cabbage outside all year round.
Bex
Well-Known Member
This is getting to be more like 'dear diary' than a forum post. In any event, I am compelled to continue to memorialize my first (failed) attempt. As well as indicate the reasons why I think it failed.
At 8AM yesterday, I bumped the temp to 63c (145F). I noticed that the veins in the remaining leaves were still green, although the leaf itself was pretty yellow. My first error: While I had read on the forum that these leaves should not be 'over' yellow at the yellowing stage, and that green around the veins was ok (or preferable??), I also read that you should not go beyond the 120F stage (39C) until they are completely yellowed. I did not follow this instruction (but sure as heck will do it next time). However, I think that my problem with this also stemmed from the lack of control over the moisture in the container. Actually, I think that perhaps everything stems from that, and this will be 'fixed' during my next run where, even though I may not have a container full of leaves, I will be able to see the RH at any given time.
In any event, at 2PM yesterday, I raised the temp again to 68C (155F). With the crockpot on high, the temp rose pretty quickly. It remained there all day, with the freezer door shut. Last night at 8:30 PM, I checked, and the leaves and veins were extremely dry. I wonder, even if they are so dry (or even crumbly) at this stage, do you still continue with the time 'schedule'?? In any event, of course, I didn't. Impatience got the better of me. I turned the crockpot off, put a couple of cups of water in it, closed the lid, and waited for about 2-3 hours before pulling the leaves out. I let them hang in the kitchen overnight, and here is the result:
One of the things that I noticed is that the consistency of the leaf is far superior to the result that I have previously achieved with other methods. The leaf was thicker, kind of leathery.
I figure that I also didn't keep the leaf at the stem drying stage long enough. But my leaf didn't change color during the (shorter) time that I did this. It just got dry. Although it is probably useless, this morning I noticed that my stove thermometer actually goes down to 140F - stem drying. I put the leaves on a baking tray and have left them in at that temp for about 1/2 hour, and then turned the stove off. Of course, the leaves got dry again, and perhaps the color 'darkened' slightly, but not much. I just wonder, what color am I looking for at the various stages of this process???
At 8AM yesterday, I bumped the temp to 63c (145F). I noticed that the veins in the remaining leaves were still green, although the leaf itself was pretty yellow. My first error: While I had read on the forum that these leaves should not be 'over' yellow at the yellowing stage, and that green around the veins was ok (or preferable??), I also read that you should not go beyond the 120F stage (39C) until they are completely yellowed. I did not follow this instruction (but sure as heck will do it next time). However, I think that my problem with this also stemmed from the lack of control over the moisture in the container. Actually, I think that perhaps everything stems from that, and this will be 'fixed' during my next run where, even though I may not have a container full of leaves, I will be able to see the RH at any given time.
In any event, at 2PM yesterday, I raised the temp again to 68C (155F). With the crockpot on high, the temp rose pretty quickly. It remained there all day, with the freezer door shut. Last night at 8:30 PM, I checked, and the leaves and veins were extremely dry. I wonder, even if they are so dry (or even crumbly) at this stage, do you still continue with the time 'schedule'?? In any event, of course, I didn't. Impatience got the better of me. I turned the crockpot off, put a couple of cups of water in it, closed the lid, and waited for about 2-3 hours before pulling the leaves out. I let them hang in the kitchen overnight, and here is the result:
One of the things that I noticed is that the consistency of the leaf is far superior to the result that I have previously achieved with other methods. The leaf was thicker, kind of leathery.
I figure that I also didn't keep the leaf at the stem drying stage long enough. But my leaf didn't change color during the (shorter) time that I did this. It just got dry. Although it is probably useless, this morning I noticed that my stove thermometer actually goes down to 140F - stem drying. I put the leaves on a baking tray and have left them in at that temp for about 1/2 hour, and then turned the stove off. Of course, the leaves got dry again, and perhaps the color 'darkened' slightly, but not much. I just wonder, what color am I looking for at the various stages of this process???
In the photo, I see some bright-cured leaf, and your description of the texture confirms it. Not bad for a first run.
Bob's advice: after the yellowing (mostly yellow), don't look at it. Just take the temp up. Your fiddling and opening the container can only diminish the effectiveness of the cure.
Subtle green in the cured leaf will dissipate within a week or so. Also, the bright lemon color will become more subdued. The lower the stalk position, the lighter the coloring. Any darker green areas may have fully dried (i.e. died) before the yellowing stage was over.
For your next run, use only leaf of a similar stage of ripeness. Once the yellowing is done, stop looking at the leaf. Just regulate the temp.
I honestly believe you're on your way to a consistently successful flue-curing technique.
And, congratulations on your first run. I would guess that there are fewer than a dozen people in the entire world who have attempted home-brew flue-curing. Welcome to the club.
Bob
Bex
Well-Known Member
Thanks! This has been an incredibly interesting journey, and, to be honest, I have you to thank for this. If I had not come across the can cozy thread, I probably never would have attempted this. Much of the info on this forum is well beyond my capacity, and probably a bit too techie for someone who is just starting out (although I can see that, when you get more confident with this, you might be interested in 'advancing'). But the can cozy was really simple and pretty doable for an 'elderly' female with little technical savvy. And the fact that you are awake at 5:30AM and answering this post is pretty darned cool, as well.
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
Lessons learned + a few good leaves = a successful trial. Well done.
leverhead
Well-Known Member
You've done as well as my first attempt, I'd say the club has a female member now. Don't let any bumps in the road get you down, they happen. Keep good notes and learn from them. Technically savvy or not, who was the last person to do flue-curing in Ireland?
I would think the next big goal would be growing enough uniformly ripe leaf to feed your freezer. A packet of known variety seed and a few bud bags might be a good Christmas present. You're hooked now, have some more fun.
I would think the next big goal would be growing enough uniformly ripe leaf to feed your freezer. A packet of known variety seed and a few bud bags might be a good Christmas present. You're hooked now, have some more fun.
Bex
Well-Known Member
Ah, thank you!! As a smoke of (geesh, I can't believe this...) almost 50 years, it's about time I got a bit pro-active. Commercial cigarettes in Ireland are about $12.50 a pack - a good incentive to look elsewhere..And as I grow most of my own vegetables, tobacco was a logical step. Of course, I plan to continue this, actually with the hopes that whatever I grow is not 'filler' for bought leaf, but stands on its own. My current plants (and seeds) may not give me that - I don't particularly like a 'mild' smoke, and sadly I think that this is all the Virginia will give (although this Red Virginia is pretty interesting - is it actually a different strain of Virginia??) I'm going to wait for my hygrometer, before I do another run - the humidity information, I think, will be important for me, at least at the beginning. In the meantime, I'm studying Dgbama's 'rack' system. Using the nails/pins is easy enough (although I must admit I've already tried my hand at stringing). I guess I'm hooked! Thanks again for everything.
You can probably do just fine with your Virginia, if you grow some burley (strength and hit) and an Oriental (aroma) to blend with them.
Bob
Bob
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
Be thinking about a wish list of varieties for next year. A lot of seed trading goes on around here over the winter.
cigarchris
Well-Known Member
For my latest run, I was also concerned with a more uniform yellowing, so I left it at 120F for an extra 12 hours (24 total). All this seemed to do was make the yellow turn brown and the greens stay green. I don't recommend it. The results are leaves that are brown and green, not a wink of yellow to be found. I'm only flue-curing Prilep this year, and I only grew eight of them, so I don't have much to choose from when priming a batch. The good thing though, is that I'm only half way up each plant, so the best, thickest, strongest leaf is still yet to come.
And I must agree with you Bex, Deluxe Bob is the man. Without his dedication to this hobby and willingness to contribute so much to the forum, I too would have never ventured this far. Cheers Bob!
And I must agree with you Bex, Deluxe Bob is the man. Without his dedication to this hobby and willingness to contribute so much to the forum, I too would have never ventured this far. Cheers Bob!
Bex
Well-Known Member
I found this, as well. Actually, I had my leaf at 95F for 72 hours, and still had green around the veins. I think that the humidity (or lack of it) was my problem, so that even when I waited at 120F for the leaves to turn completely yellow, they didn't. I was unable to maintain that 95% humidity at 95F and/or the 50% at 120F (or actually know what I had at all). I think that this is important, and plan to pay more attention to it on my next run. I'm a newb in this, but I think that the number of leaves and the size of the container contributes to the amount of humidity, and the without the proper humidity, even at the right temperature, the leaves just set at a certain color. ???
Brown Thumb
Well-Known Member
Green around the viens is good you can go to wilting phase. That is the area that confuses everybody. You are not after pure bright yellow leaf at the yellowing phase.
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
104 is the magic temp where green is set in the leaf lamina, some green in the stems/veins is OK, as it will fade. Humidity should be falling, before going up in temp too, leaf too moist in the higher wilting temps will turn brown (moisture is being cooked out of the leaf).
Bex
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is what I remembered from my reading (I should have studied so well in school....), which is why when the yellowing phase hit 72 hours, I wasn't concerned about the green veins. But the green veins never left, even after holding out at 120f in the hopes this would disappear. Again, my first run is probably not an indication of anything, as I'm sure I screwed up the humidity, during the yellowing and wilting phases. I didn't hit 104F (40C) until after 72 hours, actually, although my notes indicate that, at one point at around 36 hours in, I checked the chamber and the thermostat was reading 40C (104F) - it had been stable at 35/36C (about 95/96F) for the entire time prior to this. My last 'viewing' had been at 33 hours in, so I was surprised (actually, alarmed, having read that 104F was the threshold) to see the thermostat at 40C. I quickly opened the freezer door, misted the leaves manually and dropped the temp back to 95F or so. I suppose it's possible that this hour or two at 104f might have done some damage to the coloring??
Brown Thumb
Well-Known Member
With so few leaves in the chamber it will be hard to keep the rh up. During yellowing too much Rh should not be a problem. But leaf wilting I think is critical to lower to 55 and hold.
barns never added rh only removed. Nowadays I have no clue.
I have to add rh due to my heat exchanger removes it very quickly.
barns never added rh only removed. Nowadays I have no clue.
I have to add rh due to my heat exchanger removes it very quickly.
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
Humidity/air density affects the set temp of the thermostat. If my crock runs out of water and humidity drops, an otherwise stable temp setting ramps up by itself. Green leaf taught me this the hard way.
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