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Trials and tribulations of my first attempt

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leverhead

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Kilning flue-cured tobacco will definitely change it. I kilned some from my 2012 season, I liked it so much that the balance of '12 and all of '13 went into the kiln. My leaf got redder (darker) and a much nicer smoke. Before anybody gets pissed off at me, don't do that with any more than you're willing to throw away! For my taste it's perfect, your mileage may vary. AmaxB did a very good post about kilning. My methods differ from his for moisture control and temperatures, but after sampling some his work, it comes out every bit as good as mine. Istanbulin has posted (somewhere) a kilning schedule for Turkish tobacco's, the temperatures are lower and the time is shorter. I wouldn't consider temperature or the RH to be set in stone, arguing that the Cavendish and Perique processes are extreme examples of artificial aging might be fun. I have kilned shredded tobacco, it works just fine. Doing your homework is a good thing, punishment for crimes against tobacco is of course, loss of your tobacco.
 

deluxestogie

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After flue-curing VA Bright this year, I kilned each batch. The lugs retained their lovely lemon color. The mid leaves reddened. The top leaf went from a deep gold to a near-maduro brown--go figure. The top leaf was taken to 165ºF for stem kill, and stayed there for 2 days. That top leaf also smells like it still has a bit of work to do.

With the top leaf, the weather had cooled, and it matured on the plant much more slowly than the rest. So this color switcheroo may have more to do with the maturation conditions and harvest timing than the stalk position.

Bob
 

Bex

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I am still studying about this. I found Amax's great post, and read all the pdf's - good info. I suppose I am now trying to hone this info down to my own situation - from what I am reading, it appears to be better to kiln age using plastic containers/bags, rather than piling the leaf on trays. I think that my problem will be trying to maintain that 70% RH or so for a month. As I have 4 leaves that cured to the lemon color...out of 770...I guess that retaining that color during kiln aging won't be much of an issue...

In the meantime, my hanging stalks are doing just fine - no mold, still supple, and, of course, checked all the time as I must pass by them often. However, another (sad) adventure with my flue curing. It has been really (for us) cold here at night, as the weather has recently been clear. In order to keep my chamber vented, I have had to up the temps a bit during the cold nights, so that I can maintain my 95%/36C temp during yellowing. I awoke this morning to find the vent (shim) on the ground, the container closed, the RH at 99%, and the temp at ~40C. My cat had decided it was a great place to sleep, play, claw, etc. I now, for the first time, understand the reference to the asparagus smell of cooking tobacco. I set up everything as it should be, and within an hour or so, the smell had gone away, and the leaf doesn't look any different than usual. Does this smell indicate that the tobacco on this run is ruined??
 

Bex

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Fortunately, this cooking is in time for my non-existent Thanksgiving dinner. And then I googled this, and found a recipe for saddle of rabbit roasted in tobacco leaf, and this:
http://www.thejournal.ie/cooking-with-tobacco-havana-cigars-cuba-820098-Mar2013/
My tobacco leaf - cooked or otherwise - doesn't visually look any different than it usually does, so hopefully this was just 1 tip from one leaf, and, sadly, not enough to cover the rabbit....:(
 

deluxestogie

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Bex

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Here is a list of supposedly the top 10 most dangerous foods people eat. Fugu is #2. I imagine there is some kind of Freudian thrill to eating this stuff, and surviving. However......the number one most dangerous food listed in the link is.....ah, I'll let it surprise you.
http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1967235_1967238_1967229,00.html



Edit: Actually, I had only read up to number 3 before I posted the above. After reading the whole article, I have lost my respect for it....:)
 

Bex

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So, I finished my run yesterday - 6 days. I have been noticing something strange - I pin 3 leaves to a pin...normally, when the run is over, the leaves on the outside of that pin have cured to that greenish tinge. But the leaves under them are curing brown. My result is the usual, about 1/2 brown, 1/2 slightly green tinged on the back of the leaf, and perhaps 2-3 brightleaf leaves. Go figure. I am not spending a lot of time (days) doing the drying technique, and I don't know if this will have any effect on the final result. Once the leaf is color cured, I am going through the drying within about 36 hours, rather than taking a lot of time with it, as I'm trying to get all my plants out of the tunnel asap. I started another run yesterday evening. My container is full to capacity, a whopping 230 leaves. I still have one more run to go. While I put the leaf that was hanging in the shed into the container as well, I'm not too pleased with it. The leaf had wilted considerably (they were the smaller leaves toward the top of the stalk), and the midrib was limp, like spaghetti. Anyway, they are in there, as well - it will be interesting to see what, if anything, they do.
Temperature/RH is a constant battle, particularly as the weather changes. I can see that I have an additional 'problem' as my container is outside, so the conditions around it change daily. One cold evenings, it is difficult to keep the higher temps regulated without pretty much closing up the freezer. And that affects the RH and raises it. So, a constant juggle. I am hoping that using the freezer as a kiln after my runs are finished will improve the green tinged leaves somewhat. Meanwhile, the shredded brown leaf that I have is improving over time, which is a good thing.
Will just keep struggling on.....:)
 

Bex

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My penultimate run is halfway completed. I have one more run to go, after this one, and then the shop closes down for the season. But I think I may have landed on the reason for my troubles - and yeah, it's been mentioned in this thread a number of times.

I advised that I had given my friend about 10 plants back in July - which, at the time, were a couple of months old. He put them into a proper greenhouse - they sit in the sun all day, and are quite happy, and on this day, the 4th of December, when I went up to visit, there they were.....beautiful, lush.....and green. Not ONE yellow leaf in sight. Not even the lugs. These plants flowered and were topped in August - over 3 months ago. I had continued to use my own 'mystery' seed for the past few years, as my theory was that, after a couple of generations, they would be acclimatized to my particular conditions, and would grow better. Perhaps they have acclimatized too well, and I now have 'invented' a strain of biennial or perennial tobacco plants that never mature. I am looking forward to next year where, with a different set of seeds, I hope that my efforts are a bit more rewarding.....
 

Bex

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Finished my penultimate run on Saturday. The leaf that I took from the stalks hanging in the shed, and put into the flue curing chamber, were a dismal failure. They did nothing other than stay wilted, green, and then dry when I went to stem drying. So, an experiment that - unless I did something really wrong - will not be repeated. The result of this past run is much the same as the others - half brown, half green tinged in the back, a couple of bright leaf results, and the leaf fairly thin and 'papery' once finished.
I have started my last run today - 163 leaves - all sitting there since the beginning of August - all still pretty much green, with the exception of some of the sand lugs that are half destroyed on the ground. I have shredded my brown leaf - although the smell still has that trace of a pong to it - and kept my green tinged leaf intact. After this run is over, I am going to set my hand at trying to age it. I will first do a trial run with an empty container, and see exactly how I need to set it up to maintain that 70% RH with the 50C (about 122F) temp. I've been reading about the various ways this can be done. My thinking is to stick with the crockpot, have the lid on it, and put the crockpot on that ledge in the freezer, where the motor is. I'll then hang the bags over the deeper part of the freezer. This way, I'll be able to get to the pot easily if I need to add water, etc., without disturbing the bags or having to unload all. Still studying about this, but keeping my fingers crossed that it will improve what I have produced.
 

Bex

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I started my final run on Monday evening. And while my fairy godmother is not really watching over me insofar as curing is concerned, she sure worked overtime regarding the harvest.....A huge storm rolled in here on Tuesday night, knocking down my windbreak behind the tunnel, tipping over 55 gallon drums of water, and ripping the plastic that's on the tunnel. It's still howling here (2 days later), although the wind is supposed to abate later this evening. So, my final harvest was just in time. And, of course, the final cure is going like all the others, as well.....72 hours in, still green, blah blah blah.
When it's finished, I'll clean out the chamber well, and then start setting up for aging. Still reading about it, as well....:)
 

Bex

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Well, 40 pages in, and my last run is over. I must say that the smaller, upper leaf did not color cure nearly as well as the rest of my runs - the leaf curled considerably - even though it was hung and spaced as all the other runs. The result, as usual, was perhaps half brown, half green tinged, and one leaf that was half yellow and half green, like it might look on the plant. In any event, this experiment is now over for the season. I am going to attempt to try my hand at aging in the hopes that the leaf that remained somewhat green tinged on the back, can improve somewhat. Thanks to all of you who have given me great info and instruction with this first endeavor. I hope to be a lot more successful next year!
 

Knucklehead

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Congrats on the conclusion. Let us know how the leaf changes after kilning.. You had a great year.
 

DGBAMA

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You did well. The kilning is easy. Just keep 120-125 deg. Check once a week. If the leaf gets too dry, it will simply not age, add moisture and keep going. It doesn't hurt the leaf to dry out too much, just slows the process down. All it can do is improve.
 

Bex

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Hello, strangers!! Just a wee check in...the weather here has been horrible - 50mph winds each day for the last week. I haven't done my aging yet in the kiln. A couple of weeks ago, I did a 'test run', with no tobacco in it - but set the thermostat at 50C, filled up the crockpot, put the lid on it, and waited to see if I could hold 70% RH for any period of time. I had to play with the venting a bit - the freezer holds the moisture in really well, so it had to be vented to drop the RH down from 90% or so. I got down to 70% and was able to hold it, with the lid completely on the pot, for a couple of hours. The problem of course, is that in order for me to do this now (with the wind) would be a different story. I have found that the weather conditions - especially the wind - affects the way the kiln performs. In windy weather, the heat and humidity is just sucked out of the freezer, so that it's impossible to vent at all. And without venting, the freezer runs at too high an RH. So all is in abeyance for the moment - my 'better' tobacco is shredded and sitting in bags (almost forgotten!!) and the green tinge stuff is separated, ready try aging whenever the weather permits.

It won't be much longer (well, maybe a couple of months) before I start my seedlings for the year. Am looking forward to using better quality seeds!! Funnily enough, the plants that are in my friend's greenhouse - planted there last June when they were about 2 months old, are STILL GREEN....no yellowing, etc., even though they budded and were topped in September. Truly a mystery, and presumably why my first year's endeavor was such a struggle. On a more positive note, at least up until this writing, my cheap polytunnel, while slightly ripped here and there, is still standing, even though the windbreak behind it blew down (missing the tunnel by less than an inch). Fingers crossed that it can weather these storms. The North Atlantic has been quite angry this winter....:)
Hope all is well with everyone.....and you all had a good holiday
 

chuditch

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I am only very new to this and so far have only air dried then fermented my leaves but from this I am building a bigger fermenter that I believe i can use to flue cure. I bought a temperature controller digital and a humility controller digital from China for $24 and $10. I already had one each of these I had used in my hot house to see how well they worked. So will put the new ones onto an old chest freezer with a stainless lining that I picked up for nothing. For heat I am using a heat bulb as used in bathroom exhaust fan heaters at 275 watts and it will turn on and off when 3 degree below and above set temperature. The humidity control will be running a humidifier that is outside the chest freezer with a hose from it to the inside so I can fill it with out needing to open the lid. I am using 12 volt fans from old computers to give me air circulation. I am hopeful this will all work. I have been having a play at fermenting tobacco that I air cured by using a foam box with a light that through trial and area I selected a wattage that is giving me a constant 48.5 C and the humidity has been holding at 75 to 83 % on the meter with the light situated over a bowl of water. I have been using a 12 volt computer fan for air circulation in it as I plan to in the freezer. The tobacco has so far turned out fantastic and my wife is totally enamoured with it. She has just loaded filled her 100 cigarette tube and has said it is nicer than the smokes she was buying. At $100 per hundred for what she was smoking this has cost us about $3.87 in tubes for the 100. All up my set up so far including a cigarette tube filler, 500 cigarette tubes the tobacco shredder and all the other bits has cost me $200 so half way to breaking even on costs. Not sure if what I have been doing or have set up is any good for you but I am having fun doing it and next will be cigars for me :)
 

Bex

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I am new to this as well (this is my first year attempting flue curing)...I am using a chest freezer with a crockpot for heat. I can also add water to the crockpot if I ever needed to raise the humidity. Frankly, I have found that the chest freezer has excellent insulation, so that, with a freezer full of leaf that is just picked (and therefore has a lot of water in it), I would have no need for a humidifier. I never find that I do not have 'enough' humidity - I am venting to remove the humidity! I have the digital thermostat (outside the freezer, with a probe in the freezer). I think you may find that there is a big difference between the way the foam box holds humidity vs the freezer. Of course, the temperature is easy enough to control with the digital thermostat, and it makes the temperature part of this process really easy. It is the humidity that I find somewhat difficult to control - as there is always too much, rather than not enough, I might consider hooking up the digital humidity controller to open and close vents - to do so, of course, you have to cut vents into the side of the freezer, which I have not done.
I also have 2 computer fans running.
At the moment - and most probably because of a problem with the actual plants that I was attempting to flue cure - my 'product' from this past summer might be serviceable as 'filler' but is certainly not a standalone product. It also never properly seemed to mature or ripen, so trying to flue cure it was always a struggle. I hope to have much better results next year with better plants......
 
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