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Nitrogen Poisoning?

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CT Tobaccoman

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A few days ago I gave my "laggers" and some of my less than biggest plants a good blast of urea. I've found that mixing the pellets around the stalk and watering, a lot of growth and bigger leaves hapens within a week. When I worked Conn Shade, we used to side dress with ammomuim nitrate twice whe the plants were still under 2 feet tall. All I can get around here is urea nitrogen, but it has worked ok.

But this time I might have overdone it. On a few plants, leaves suddenly lost all their firmness and just hang there limp. They are very dark green. Only a few have been seriously affected, but even the biggest ones have a leaf or two that is acting this way.

This is the worst one

DSCF0044.jpg

Nothing else happened except the addition of nitrogen, so I suspect that this guy got a little too much.

CT
 

Jitterbugdude

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If you want to confirm your hypothesis, mix a double strength mixture and feed one plant with it. If you get the same or worse results then yes the urea is the culprit. Urea is very strong stuff, too much burns roots.
 

ArizonaDave

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hmmm............my plants look like that every evening when it's blistering hot. Although, because of the flood yesterday, they're looking perky!

Don't know much about the levels yet, although I've heard from Bob that it makes the veins thicker. How much is too much? It's better to ask someone like Bob or one of the other growers. Wish I could help!
 

DGBAMA

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I would suspect the urea content, not the nitrogen. A Heavy watering may dilute the concentration around the roots and bring them back. My young understanding of tobacco is that high urea or chlorine/chloride in fertilizer is a NO-NO .
 

CT Tobaccoman

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hmmm............my plants look like that every evening when it's blistering hot. Although, because of the flood yesterday, they're looking perky!

Don't know much about the levels yet, although I've heard from Bob that it makes the veins thicker. How much is too much? It's better to ask someone like Bob or one of the other growers. Wish I could help!

Looks like I found out how much is too much. Yet, of 24 plants only this one is seriously affected. It does look like root damage--some roots--because some leaves are not affected at all.

I wanted to boost my small plants, and it worked well on all but this poor guy, who is not even the smallest that I have. Leaves sprung out overnite too close together on the stalk here and there, so some new leaves are laying on the leaf under. Other odd things happened to the shape of a few leaves but no real damage. Even buds appeared where they had not been days before. Good, since I want to top them and finish them--the weather is changing fast here already and it feels like fall.

On the whole, the urea did what I wanted it to do. I guess this one just got too much. Maybe it will recover. I'll let you know. It can't be anything else but urea poisoning because noting else happened and I didn't do anything else to the plants except that. I suppose they will get over it, but instead of speeding things up I now might have to wait longer for the effects of this to abate. My plants have shallow roots because of the overly sandy soil. Maybe roots near the surface came in direct contact with the urea pellets.

It was a dumb thing to do. I know that at this stage fertilizer shouldn't be given anymore. Topped most of them this week so it will probably be mid-October before I'm done, and the blast of nitrogen will create a forest of suckers.
 

CT Tobaccoman

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I would suspect the urea content, not the nitrogen. A Heavy watering may dilute the concentration around the roots and bring them back. My young understanding of tobacco is that high urea or chlorine/chloride in fertilizer is a NO-NO .

I've heard bad things about urea too, and when we side dressed nitrogen on the farm we used ammonium nitrate, which I can't find in the gardening stores around here. They all try too hard to be "organic." But I have been using urea dissolved in water added to Miracle Gro since they were little seedlings in trays without any problem and always got the desired results. I side dressed them 2-3 times before this too. I have mostly big full sized healthy plants, which I have to admit is remarkable since my soil is one degree better than beach sand. What happened here is an overdose, plain and simple.

Interesting, you say it's probably the urea not the nitrogen. I hadn't thought of that.

I'd been wondering whether to water them a lot to dilute and wash away the excess or to not water them at all, since whenever they get water they take up more of the stuff. Since the soil is very sandy, the stuff will probably leach away with a lot of water. Right now I am just watching to see what happens. I don't want to follow one impulsive act with another. I'm impulsive by nature--it has always got me into trouble.
 

DGBAMA

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I mention the watering/flooding of affected plants because I remember your soil is sandy and drains well enough it should be like washing away the extra. In better soil you might solublize the extra fertilizer with no where for it to go except being absorbed by the plant, maybe making things worse.
 

CT Tobaccoman

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I mention the watering/flooding of affected plants because I remember your soil is sandy and drains well enough it should be like washing away the extra. In better soil you might solublize the extra fertilizer with no where for it to go except being absorbed by the plant, maybe making things worse.

Yep, I think you're right DGB. I'll rinse piss (urea, that is) out of 'em tomorrow.
 

POGreen

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I have used urea this hole seaso without any problems , however I mix about 10 % into my waterbarrels and from there with a wateringcan.
But I actually had a couple of plants that did collapse for me but that was from grassclippings in the barrels and the bottomscraps.......
 

DGBAMA

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Yep, I think you're right DGB. I'll rinse piss (urea, that is) out of 'em tomorrow.
Might also consider an artificial shade over them for a couple days until they recover. Leaf that wilted sun-burns easily.... I learned the hard way.
 

CT Tobaccoman

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Might also consider an artificial shade over them for a couple days until they recover. Leaf that wilted sun-burns easily.... I learned the hard way.

No danger of that. Summer's over up here, and they only get maybe 6 hours in direct sun now, temp in the 60s. If the sun even shines. These effed up leaves act healthy at night, though, moving up to shield the chit. I feel that they will recover after a good flooding, which should dilute the stuff and hopefully drive it down below their roots. If not, well, it's only one plant and one that never really took off in the first place. If the leaves don't improve I'll cut them off. Most of the leaves on the plant are not affected. Maybe certain roots feed certain leaves.

The other plants did benefit from the urea. Still, when tobacco is near budding stage they shouldn't get anymore fertilizer for a variety of reasons.
 

CT Tobaccoman

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Strike that. Just went outside to check, and that one leaf is still hanging there limp. Other leaves here and there that were affected to a lesser degree are all acting normally tonight. It's in the 50s and the plants are all praying hard. Maybe this foolish impulsive urea application will only cost me one leaf.

If the plants had been younger this could have been a major disaster. So be careful with urea nitrogen, guys. I know that you are anyway. Thanks for the thoughts.
 

chuditch

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Ammonium nitrate is a no no world wide now, as that is the preferred option for terrorists aka Oklahoma bomber. Mix ammonium nitrate with diesel fuel and thats it you have the makings of a very impressive bomb that goes off at a compression ratio of 19:1 same as diesel. Great for getting stumps out and cheap. a couple of cups of that mix and a 1/4 stick of gelignite (dynamite) would losen a stump nicely. Most govts have strict controls on supply of ammonium nitrate in granular form and here in Aust market gardens etc can buy it in a solution which is dyed red and next to impossible to extract the ammonium nitrate from. Its also used in meat curing that and ammonium nitrite. Nitrite easy to get the nitrate usually now comes as a mix of other salts etc.
Bloody terrorists have made the world unsafe and hard for us all.
Have had a similar thing happen with a couple of my plants and doing some research check out "root asphyxia". Happens from heavy rain flooding apparently. My wife was concerned she wasn't getting the water around the plants and so watered onto them into them and that was the day before had a similar effect to the photo posted. Till then had only watered around the plants so we are thinking that was the cause of the wilted leaves for us. Plants perked up the following morning but the wilted leaves seem lost.
Hope thats of help not sure of your watering practices.

I've heard bad things about urea too, and when we side dressed nitrogen on the farm we used ammonium nitrate, which I can't find in the gardening stores around here. They all try too hard to be "organic." But I have been using urea dissolved in water added to Miracle Gro since they were little seedlings in trays without any problem and always got the desired results. I side dressed them 2-3 times before this too. I have mostly big full sized healthy plants, which I have to admit is remarkable since my soil is one degree better than beach sand. What happened here is an overdose, plain and simple.

Interesting, you say it's probably the urea not the nitrogen. I hadn't thought of that.

I'd been wondering whether to water them a lot to dilute and wash away the excess or to not water them at all, since whenever they get water they take up more of the stuff. Since the soil is very sandy, the stuff will probably leach away with a lot of water. Right now I am just watching to see what happens. I don't want to follow one impulsive act with another. I'm impulsive by nature--it has always got me into trouble.
 

Smokin Harley

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Try finding Milorganite to fertilize your crops...I buy it at Menards . It comes in a white and green bag. I've known about it for over 35 years. Its awesome natural fertilizer that won't burn the plant. What it is is actually deactivated sewage sludge . I turn it into my soil before planting ,then again every 3 weeks or just before a rain or deep watering I'll broadcast a spoonfeeding over the plants .
 
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