Buy Tobacco Leaf Online | Whole Leaf Tobacco

thin leaf, low yield problem

Status
Not open for further replies.

DGBAMA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
4,418
Points
63
Location
NORTH ALABAMA
I have had nice plants and good leaf size my first two grows, but something is missing. Leaf continues to cure thin and without the weight I feel it should have. A pile of several hundred mid ribs looks like a pile of pine straw. I feel like my yield weight is half or less than it should be for the number of leaves.

14114394150300.jpg

Is there something in the growing I am missing? Or could it be as simple as the weather which I cannot control? Last year was record rains and this year was chance of rain almost daily (both mean lots of cloudy days). Have I just been stuck with the equivariant of shade grown tobacco, due to weather?

Each leaf takes the same amount of work, from harvest to smoke so I would really like to figure out a remedy for the thin leaves/low yield per leaf by weight.
 

Ben Brand

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
1,167
Points
63
Location
Groblersdal, South Africa
DGBAMA
Maybe it depends on the amount of fertilizers you used! Don`t know what and how much you used, I was thought the right amount of fertilizer gives you a nice heavy leaf, the thing is to know how much? The more food you give the pant the slower it ripens, and also the time you give the food is also important.
I used to give my tobacco ( flu-cured) a good kick with fertilizers just after topping, but then I must say I used to grow tobacco in very poor sandy soils. Good luck!
 

Rickey60

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
878
Points
0
Location
SW Mississippi
This is a good topic. I too have a problem with with thin leaf. I think fertilize is not a problem because I probably over fertilized this year. Some of my garden gets some shade during the day and full sun on the rest but the leaf cures light and thin from both sides. My cured leaf should weigh twice what it does after it cures compared to leaf I buy.
We need to have a good discussion on this subject.
 

Ben Brand

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
1,167
Points
63
Location
Groblersdal, South Africa
It could be a few factors, like the sun etc. But if you say the shady and sunny sides leaves are the same then it could be the type of fertilizers as well, and the varieties youv`e planted.
I used loads more fertilizer the year before and had monster plant and monster leaves, elephant ears I called them. I used a slow release fertilizer, so the had food for a long time. This year I used a lot of limestone ammonium nitrate, and the leaves are much smaller and thinner. Think there will be a few more suggestions.
 

Brown Thumb

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
4,057
Points
113
Location
Pa
[h=3]Soil Test[/h]
Manganese toxicity due to low soil pH can lower yields by up to 500 lb/acre. Lime should be applied at least 6 months prior to planting for best crop response. Use liming materials with a high relative neutralizing value (RNV). Positive crop response to molybdenum is seen across all soils in Kentucky. Transplant water treatments of molybdenum are easy and inexpensive. Fertilize according to soil test rather than out of habit. Excessive fertilizer can lower pH by more than one unit and may burn the roots, resulting in reduced rather than increased yield. However, tobacco grows in a relatively short season compared to other crops, so don't under-fertilize. Consider applying 1/2 of the total nitrogen required pre-transplant and sidedressing the remainder 3 to 4 weeks after setting. If the pH is low and lime was applied within 3 months of setting, use nitrate-nitrogen (sodium or calcium nitrate) to prevent lowering the soil pH.
An Idea? I did not have the thickest leaves either this year.
 

Rickey60

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
878
Points
0
Location
SW Mississippi
It could be a few factors, like the sun etc. But if you say the shady and sunny sides leaves are the same then it could be the type of fertilizers as well, and the varieties youv`e planted.
I used loads more fertilizer the year before and had monster plant and monster leaves, elephant ears I called them. I used a slow release fertilizer, so the had food for a long time. This year I used a lot of limestone ammonium nitrate, and the leaves are much smaller and thinner. Think there will be a few more suggestions.
What slow release fertilizer did you use? I used sodium nitrate and calcium nitrate this year. My leaves were dark green and late to mature. I am only half way through priming due to maturing problems. Also with them taking so long to mature I am having problems with brown spot that I don't think I would have if they matured early like they should have.
 

Rickey60

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
878
Points
0
Location
SW Mississippi
Brown Thumb;913 soil[B said:
Test[/B]


Manganese toxicity due to low soil pH can lower yields by up to 500 lb/acre. Lime should be applied at least 6 months prior to planting for best crop response. Use liming materials with a high relative neutralizing value (RNV). Positive crop response to molybdenum is seen across all soils in Kentucky. Transplant water treatments of molybdenum are easy and inexpensive. Fertilize according to soil test rather than out of habit. Excessive fertilizer can lower pH by more than one unit and may burn the roots, resulting in reduced rather than increased yield. However, tobacco grows in a relatively short season compared to other crops, so don't under-fertilize. Consider applying 1/2 of the total nitrogen required pre-transplant and sidedressing the remainder 3 to 4 weeks after setting. If the pH is low and lime was applied within 3 months of setting, use nitrate-nitrogen (sodium or calcium nitrate) to prevent lowering the soil pH.
An Idea? I did not have the thickest leaves either this year.
Good points. I think a soil test in the fall to check pH is a must. Apply lime early if needed, and give you a good idea of what nutrients and needed or not for spring planting.

What is the treatment with molybdenum used for?
 

Brown Thumb

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
4,057
Points
113
Location
Pa
Good points. I think a soil test in the fall to check pH is a must. Apply lime early if needed, and give you a good idea of what nutrients and needed or not for spring planting.

What is the treatment with molybdenum used for?
[h=1]Molybdenum (MoO[SUB]4[/SUB][SUP]-[/SUP])[/h][h=2]Functions[/h]Molybdenum is essential for many plant functions. Some of them are

  • It functions in converting nitrates (NO[SUB]3[/SUB] ) into amino acids within the plant.
  • It is essential to the symbiotic nitrogen fixing bacteria in legumes.
  • It is essential to the conversion of inorganic P into organic forms in the plant.
Molybdenum is considered to be quite mobile as it moves readily in both the xylem and phloem conductive tissue of the plant. Still its highest concentration is in mature leaves because it binds readily with sulfur-containing amino-groups, sugars, and polyhydroxides which are usually in greater concentration in these leaves. It is found in the enzymes nitrate-reductase and nitrogenase which are essential for nitrate reduction and symbiotic Nfixation in plants. Adequate Molybdenum minimizes the presence of nitrites and nitrates in plant tissues.
[h=2]Factors Affecting Availability[/h]
  • Leaching Soil Conditions: Available soil Mo is an anion, and is therefore leachable.
  • Soil pH: Molybdenum is the only micronutrient that has increased availability as the pH increases. At a soil pH above 6.5, unnecessary Mo applications can result in Mo toxicity to the crop, to animals eating the crop, or it may induce deficiencies of an element listed below. At pH's below 6.0, availability is rapidly diminished because Mo is easily "fixed" in the soil by free Fe(OH)[SUB]3[/SUB], AI(OH)[SUB] 3[/SUB] and Fe[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]3[/SUB].
  • Soil Saturation: It is believed by some researchers that in saturated soils, Mo availability is increased somewhat.
  • Mo:S Balance: Some work has shown that sulfate applications can cause a reduction in Mo uptake by plants.
  • Mo:p Balance: Applications of P have increased the Mo content of plants in some research. It is thought that P reduces the adsorption of Mo compounds in the soil.
  • NH[SUB]4[/SUB]:NO[SUB]3[/SUB] Balance: Plants can often grow well in low Mo soils when fertilized with NH[SUB]4[/SUB] fertilizers, as opposed to NO[SUB]3[/SUB] fertilizers.
[h=2]High Response Crops[/h]While this is an essential element for all plants, these crops have been found to be especially responsive.
Alfalfa, broccoli, brussel sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, clover, lettuce, peas, soybeans, spinach, sugarbeets, tomatoes, tobacco and most legumes.
 

Jack in NB

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
242
Points
28
Location
Fredericton NB Canada
DG -

Your pix look very much like my crops the first couple of years. I didn't have a leaf over 14-15", nor a rib bigger than 1/4".

Then as well as the lime and fertilizer treatments discussed above (recommendations per soil tests), I added 3 - 4 good shovelsful of compost mixed into the planting holes before planting, added trickle irrigation, and covered the rows with black plastic. Now most of my leaves are 20" plus, (max has been 36") ribs finger to thumb size. And I haven't had to pull more than a dozen weeds out of my 75-100 plants.
 

SmokesAhoy

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
2,686
Points
0
Location
VT
Might also be harvest time. It packs on the weight in the last days
 

squeezyjohn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
1,007
Points
48
Location
Oxford - UK
Could it be closeness of planting? I've definitely found that I get thinner leaves if they've been crowded out of enough sunlight because I planted them too close together. It also is a factor in slowing down the signs of ripening.
 

DGBAMA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
4,418
Points
63
Location
NORTH ALABAMA
Lots of ideas here, good discussion to keep going as we start thinking about next year. My main three varieties, Silver river, Crillo Black, and African red, all ended in plants in excess of 8 feet tall with nice/large leaves. Other varieties from 4-6 ft seemingly apropriate height and leaf size for the individual varieties. I just think am not getting nearly the cured/finished weight that I should for the size of the leaves and plants. One thing I wonder is if the double staggered rows leave them too close, growth would indicate that the spacing is good but wondering if the spacing could be effecting the final mass of the leaves instead of the leaf size.
 

DGBAMA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
4,418
Points
63
Location
NORTH ALABAMA
Chit, you Done Good. I was Luckey to hit 6 ft.
Some of the African red made 10, including flower head. Growth not the issue, cured yield weight is what I need to fix. A 500 leaf harvest is the same amount of work, weather the finished weight is 5lbs or 15lbs.
 

BigBonner

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
1,671
Points
63
Location
Kentucky
Factors for thin leaf .

1 Wet year , In a wet year our per acre weight may be lower than a drier year .
2 Sun , when cut the sun will burn leaves to a thin crisp if left in the field too long
3 Lime , Soil PH Some fields here on my farm will weigh better than others and the tobacco will look fairly well the same size .
4 Topping and harvesting , Harvested too early will not let the leaves thicken up .
 

DGBAMA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
4,418
Points
63
Location
NORTH ALABAMA
Factors for thin leaf .

1 Wet year , In a wet year our per acre weight may be lower than a drier year .
2 Sun , when cut the sun will burn leaves to a thin crisp if left in the field too long
3 Lime , Soil PH Some fields here on my farm will weigh better than others and the tobacco will look fairly well the same size .
4 Topping and harvesting , Harvested too early will not let the leaves thicken up .

Thank you.

Harvest was weeks after topping, I don't think an issue. Priming, so sunburn not an issue, except a few leaves I threw away.

That leaves too wet (explains last year) possible not enough sun (lots of cloudy days this summer); neither of which I can control.

And soil PH, so I guess a dirt test is in order.
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
23,931
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
BigBonner, it's always great to read your impressions, backed by your years of experience with huge, commercial crops.

My shorter experience on coddled, little crops suggests that the double staggered row planting is not the problem.

Bob
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top