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Pressureless perique?

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Planter

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Update:


Opened the first jar of Prilep 66-9/7, curing with the low-pressure jar-in-a-jar-method as described above since November 27.
These leaves were originally greenish, not fully air-cured, but by now have turned colour to a good brown. The smell in the jar is musty*, not very appetizing, but that went away mostly while drying.
How it smokes (on its own): This stuff is smooth, aromatic and much more to my liking than my (unaged) sun-cured/air-cured Prilep (which I find a bit raw compared to my other Orientals). There´s a distinct incense note, burn is good and slow, no bite at all. I´m not looking for nicotine, and did not sense any disturbing amount. I´m debating now if I shall leave it a bit longer to see how it develops, or if I shall take it all out, because I find it a quite ideal smoke, and this although the original leaf quality was surely not the best.

(Note on the mustiness: Jars which started with fully colour-cured leaves smell much better and rather fruity.)
 

Planter

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Out of curiosity I set up another jar in a similar way, but used a mixture of rum and Petimezi/Pekmez instead of water. In principle this should resemble the old sailors way of wrapping tobacco with rum and sugar tightly into a canvas. Does anybody know how long "Navy Flake" was kept this way before it was smoked?

Update on Rum/Petimezi-instead-of-water, started Dec 3:


There shouldn´t be much microbiological activity, but I found something looking like yeast growth in this jar as well (not so much rum was used compared to the amount of leaf, so the alcohol must have been quite diluted). Good, fruity smell. The Izmir used for this was greenish and only half air-cured at the end of the season. Now the leaves have a beautiful red-brown and are transparent and leathery like others have posted here before.
Drying very fast once exposed to air.
An excellent smoke on its own. Slow, cool burn, with a certain sweetness which feels organic. It has a very inoffensive room note, a typical sweet pipe scent, which is distinctly Oriental at the same time. The highly critical Mistress actually liked the smell. No bite at all (in fact after testing several other experiments it was rather tongue-cooling, if there is such a thing). Left a good taste. This is much better than any Cavendish-attempt I have made with heat, esp. since it maintained the Oriental aroma and is not flat at all. I took it all out of the jar since this feels perfect, but will make more.

Too early to say, but I have the impression this curing method may work better for me than anything involving heat, at least for Orientals.
 

DGBAMA

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Sounds like you are pleased with the results, which is the important part. Well done.

I still have a good month to go on my first perique attempt, but am looking forward to it.
 

Planter

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I´m in some ways surprised how well it works (but there must be a reason that in the past people went through the efforts of making Perique and Navy Cavendish.)


Coming back to the original question of the thread: So far I got the impression that HIGH pressure is not necessary, just enough to seal the leaves from air. In this the Perique and the traditional Navy Cavendish process (as far that sailors myth has it) are similar - the use of rum in the latter helps preventing mold growth in a not perfectly sealed environment (canvas wrapping).


On the previously discussed matter if high pressure is needed for cell disruption: I gave some leaves a mechanical treatment before, others not, the liquid in the different jars looks the same after a few days.


If you don´t insist on a very alkaline product for blending purposes, take a couple of leaves out after 2 months or so. Chances are you may like it already as a stand alone smoke.
 

jolly

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This thread has inspired me. Perique is one of my favorites, and I've been following these perique threads but didn't really have any way to apply pressure to a container. So I'm giving this a shot.

I had just finished color curing my last Mt. pima plant from last year. Since some of us who've grown this variety seem to be struggling to find a good use for it, I thought I'd give this a go.

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Mt. Pima - 1 whole plant, color cured, medium case

image.jpg
Leaves stemmed and stuffed into a glass bail top container

image.jpg
water added, jar placed on top, box of jarred tobacco placed on top of that so that water is above the leaves.

We'll see what happens. If it doesn't go well I won't count it as much of a loss.
 

Planter

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Looking good! Put something underneath, it might bubble over. I just opened a jar for airing/re-arranging, when I took the lid off - whuuah, the leaves came out as a balloon, really a lot of gas in there. Btw., a few minutes of air exposure indeed make the leaves turn brown over the following days, smell as well improves. I guess at some point the undesirable byproducts need a chance to escape.
 

Planter

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Here´s another reasoning why I think effective pressure in traditional Perique making is not ultra-high and may be of secondary importance.


I have a number of wine barrels from a major wine producer standing around as rain barrels (standard Bordeaux barriques, quite new). One froze completely. The expanding ice broke the bottom out. The material in that part is not really thicker than normal wood flooring, when the cask stands on the rim this part is unsupported in the centre (where it consequently broke).


If the whisky barrels used for Perique pressing (since 1905, before in wooden boxes I heard somewhere) are similar to these wine barrels, this should easily become an issue under REAL mechanical torture. I´m reading here http://discussions.probrewer.com/archive/index.php/t-35672.html that wooden barrels may not be able to hold 5 PSI long term.
 

Planter

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As an added note: If I fill a small mason jar with leaves and press the smaller jar with 1 arm down (around 110lbs) when closing the lid, pressure in the "pressureless" setup comes to about 45 PSI, if my calculation is right. To do that by hand is mainly an issue for larger amounts of leaves.
 

Planter

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Now I found this:


"A dozen or so “twists” are packed in a box 11″ square the weight being about 50 lbs. The contents of the box are then submitted to a pressure of about 7000 lbs. for at least 24 hours"


http://www.gutenberg.org/files/37388/37388-h/37388-h.htm


That would equal a pressure of 58 PSI, which is in line with my "hand-pressing" in small jars (enough to squeeze the juices out), but obviously higher than the "5 PSI limit" assumed for barrels.

Nonetheless, large poundage is only needed for pressing a lot of leaves, the actual pressure on the leaf cells is in the range of squeezing wet tobacco by hand. This is not about making flake tobacco.
 

deluxestogie

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...large poundage is only needed for pressing a lot of leaves...
PSI is a measure of the pressure applied to a column of material (tobacco leaf) with a 1" x 1" cross-section. This is regardless of how tall the column may be. So the PSI is unrelated to how large a batch is--a small jar or a giant tub.

The PSI, as you know, is simply the actual weight in pounds applied to the top surface of the container, divided by the surface area (in[sup]2[/sup]) of the top surface. So I would clarify your statement to say that large poundage is only needed for a container with a large (top) surface area, in order to achieve the same PSI.

Bob
 

Planter

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So I would clarify your statement to say that large poundage is only needed for a container with a large (top) surface area, in order to achieve the same PSI.
Bob

That´s what I meant (assuming that in practice "a lot of leaf" usually goes with containers of larger surface). I wanted to point that out because everywhere I´m seeing statements of Perique pressed under "thousands of pounds", and while these are impressive numbers they translate into manageable forces for small batch processing. Anyway, I see you have been there before, and estimated pressure as well to being in the 30-50 PSI range?
 

deluxestogie

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...estimated pressure as well to being in the 30-50 PSI range?
Yes. I should also note that I have seen bruising of leaf lamina under measured pressure as low as 3 psi.

But, all this discussion of pressure feels a bit out of place in a thread on "pressureless Perique."

Bob
 

Planter

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Yes. I should also note that I have seen bruising of leaf lamina under measured pressure as low as 3 psi.

But, all this discussion of pressure feels a bit out of place in a thread on "pressureless Perique."

Bob

Yes, I thought that too, but after all I realized that my "almost pressureless hand pressing" in small jars is not far off normal Perique processing pressure. Anyway, the hand pressing has of course it´s limitations, I filled a bigger jar (about 2 pounds of tobacco) yesterday and could JUST squeeze enough juice. Any bigger than that and a mechanical construction or at least a clamp makes sense.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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With sauerkraut, it's normal to bash the crap out of the cabbage, breaking the cells, until you can submerge the leaves in its own juices, but it's not actually necessary to do it that way. All that really matters is that the leaves are submerged in brine. You can simply pack a jar, and pour water in. (and salt, obviously. A culture helps too)

Is it not also possible that the rupturing the cells part, ie pressure, of perique is not necessary?
 

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ChinaVoodoo;100591Is it not also possible that the rupturing the cells part said:
I have a test going on this very concept right now. No time at the present to report on it due to family events but will soon.
 

Planter

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I thought it had to do with getting the air (oxygen) out as much as possible to avoid rot/mold.


But I have 2 or 3 jars where at the bottom some larger air bubbles are locked in (applying higher pressure would probably help here). There´s no sign of rot or mold - I guess the oxygen was soon used up.


What would be interesting is to set up some loose, moist leaf under a "protective atmosphere" instead of having it covered by liquid.


On the other hand, since people here are already getting good results with simple press arrangements, maybe that would be more sport than of practical use.


On the matter of cell rupture, fully colour-cured leaf stains the liquid more or less immediately. In still somewhat greenish leaf the absence of mechanical torture delays that effect, but it still happens after several days.

By the way, out of curiosity I prepared another jar with some honey (about 10% of tobacco weight) added to the water. Perhaps this initial feed helps things finding the right direction quicker (pruney, fruity smell instead of stink).
 
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