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Deer's tongue

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deluxestogie

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The WebMD article specifically addresses oral consumption of the herb, rather than its use in tobacco. The cautions are similar to those seen regarding most herbal supplements for which there is little research data. No need for conspiracy theories.

Licorice cautions are supported by much better data.

Bob
 

deluxestogie

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Research continues....scroll halfway down for an article from 1966. Apparently, as per the article, it is used for its active ingredient...coumarin:
http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIMN0072947-2949.html
Very nice. This document contains a readable photocopy of a 1966 magazine article (?Tobacco Reporter?) that discusses the growing, harvesting and curing details of deer tongue.

  • the flower stalk emerges in mid summer
  • large, mature lower leaf is harvested (primed) thereafter
  • the leaf is air-cured, with attention to preventing mold
  • the cured leaf can be powdered or shredded for use in tobacco.

Bob
 

deluxestogie

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Coumarin is a natural product which exhibits marked species differences in both metabolism and toxicity. The majority of tests for mutagenic and genotoxic potential suggest that coumarin is not a genotoxic agent.

It appears that the...major pathway in most human subjects...is a detoxification pathway.

...it is concluded that exposure to coumarin from food and/or cosmetic products poses no health risk to humans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10418958

Bob
 

holyRYO

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Research continues....scroll halfway down for an article from 1966. Apparently, as per the article, it is used for its active ingredient...coumarin:
http://tobaccodocuments.org/ti/TIMN0072947-2949.html

Great read, thanks for the find Bex. I really like what deer tongue brings to tobacco. I keep some C&D Gentlemen Caller on hand for special occasions. I blend it with my cigarette tobacco. I get a nice crusty apple pie taste, not so much vanilla like as typically described. Super nice room note as well, hence the blend name. From what I can see, it looks like a tiny bit goes a long way in the blend. The article mentions New Hanover county, thats next to my county. Someone said they were going to show me where it grows, but I have not seen him since. If I can get/find some seeds, would be glad to pass them on.
 

Bex

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If coumarin is the actual substance that is wanted in this process, rather than the entirety of deers tongue, it is apparently also found in other grasses and in clover as well. As the name suggests, I believe that it is also the active ingredient in warfarin and anti-clotting agents. So yes, I would think that a little goes a long way.
 

Jitterbugdude

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Coumarin is not what you are after. Coumarin is also in Tonka beans yet it has a different flavor profile than Deer's Tongue. Coumarin and Coumadin are two different substances.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I just like how deer's tongue tastes.

Even if it were toxic, which it's apparently not, it would be a question of dose, and your own medical condition. If I were on medications that might interact with it, I would err on the side of caution. If there was a single documented case of a dire outcome from it, I would take it more seriously. If canned baked beans were in a plant identification field guide, it would be listed as mildly toxic, causing gastrointestinal distress, I'm sure. Although something may have certain chemical properties, doesn't mean the worst. Show some evidence that my life is at risk with actual cases, and I will stop putting a dash of it in my tobacco.

Stewart
 

istanbulin

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I don't think coumarin is totally safe. It's banned from food by FDA and even it's legal as a tobacco flavorant most of the tobacco flavor producers are using coumarin free ingredients (e.g. coumarin free Tonka) or coumarin substitues. Well, do I smoke a blend containing Deer's Tongue ? Absolutely yes, I try it.
 

indianjoe

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I imagine that sassafrass root adds some great flavor to the bacca. I just do not need any other reasons to make my bacca more flavorful than it already is :).
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I thought I'd update on the deerstongue experience. It had been a long and hard grow, and while I started with 11 viable seedlings, they have almost all finally died, except for two shrivelled and limp plants and one gloriously priapistic specimen. See photos.

IMG_20151217_085028.jpg
IMG_20151217_085048.jpg

I'm hoping I can get fresh seed off it. Perhaps they will be more viable than the ones we bought, and maybe the plants will be more ambitious growers.
 

deluxestogie

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The Deer's Tongue (Carphephorus odoratissimus) grew poorly in my soil, and did not produce seed or baby rosettes. It did not survive the winter.

Probably the most useful presentation of its growth environment is here: http://www.fnps.org/plants/plant/carphephorus-odoratissimus . The site is specifically about Florida, but makes it fairly clear that the natural habitat for Deer's Tongue is moist, sandy, coastal plains and bogs, with mild winters. I'm sure a heated greenhouse could fake it.

Since the single constituent of Deer's Tongue that provides its flavor is coumarin, it is not suitable for oral tobacco, but might find some use in pipe blends. Regardless, it's a pain in the butt to grow, if you don't live in its natural habitat.

Bob
 

BigBonner

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Carphephorus odoratissimus , Trilisa adoratissima)

Did anyone find any seeds . Roundstone has Carphephorus odoratissimus, Carphephorus corymbosis AKA Florida Paintbrush . I don't believe that these are the same as Trilisa adoratissima
I have read that there is a fake deer's Tongue and I was wondering if the type os seeds that Roundstone has is possibly the fake Deer Tongue and does not have the flavor that Trilisa adoratissima has

Here is a old but interesting read .
http://palmm.digital.flvc.org/islan.../view/The_Deer_Tongue_Industry_In_Florida.pdf
 
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