Northern Climate Growing

[ChinaVoodoo]

I live in Edmonton. I don't believe that the length of the growing season here is a serious issue, because although the season is shorter, the days are longer. A friend from Colombia told me he can grow any vegetables that he used to back home because we get 16 hours of daylight at the peak of summer.

I believe the issue we have up here is temperature, both of the air, and of the soil. The average temperature is around 55F at night, and 75F during the day. It fluctuates dramatically-we'll get freak snowstorms in May-but this is the average. Greenhouses work well because they maintain a higher temperature. I have grown tobacco several times, and the plants only get to about three feet tall by the end of the season. This year was the first year I took growing tobacco seriously, and is also the first year that I cured my tobacco. I planted Burley - Special Gold, and Black Samsun. I had eight plants-four of each-enclosed in an impromptu vapor-barrier greenhouse. The Samsun got to nearly six feet tall, and the Burley had larger leaves, and about 5 feet tall. The same tobacco growing in the garden got only half the weight of leaves per plant. I believe that with a properly constructed greenhouse, I will do much better because this impromptu setup I had was open at the ends, and shielded by fence on two sides, and had a young cherry tree nearby. I transplanted my asparagus to that spot before the snow fell.

We got a 9'x14' car shelter for my wife's winter-useless rear wheel drive Scion, and I plan on covering it with clear material in the summer and plopping it in the middle of my garden next year. My tomatoes will do awesome, and so will my tobacco.

That said, I still have room in other places on my property to plant tobacco, and my question is, are there some types of tobacco that will do better than others in the spaces outside of the greenhouse? Knowing this, I can plan ahead to plant the ones that need the greenhouse more, inside; and the ones that need the greenhouse less, outside.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Actually, I looked it up, and in June the day is 17 hours long here.

 

[bonehead]

there are a few home growers that had success up in alaska. thats pretty far north.

 

[Lakota]

ChinaVoodoo if you pm me your address I will send you some seed that I had grow well just outside of Stettler. Stettler is just 2 hours southeast of Edmonton.

 

[Matty]

What time are you starting seeds? My first year I was late starting and ended up with 3'-4' plants. This summer past I started in early March. I also fertilized about 4 times as much. My plants got to around 6'-7' with massive leaves. Thing is, an abnormally early killing frost took most of it in one fell swoop. Next year I might start a little earlier, fewer plants and fertilize a bit more and slightly different. I'm aiming for much bigger plants and the possibility of some 40" long leaves. I don't think you'd need a greenhouse to grow them during the summer but it would be good insurance later on in the year.

 

[Lakota]

Matty I started a few plants the first of march a few years ago. The early start plants were noticably bigger than the later started plants ( middle of April). Once I planted out side in 3 or 4 weeks it was hard to tell the difference between them. Maybe the extra fertilizer you applied was the answer. A 40 inch leaf is huge, the longest one I had was 34 inches from a big leaf plant ( monte calm yellow according to skychaser) from seedgnome.

 

[Planter]

For that I can specifically recommend:


Dark/cigar:


Rot Front (Skychaser/northwoodseeds has seeds; made for shitty weather, big leaves with an old time cigar character)
Havana Corojo (did much better for me than e.g. Havana Z992, which in principle is made for more Northern climates)


Oriental:


That Izmir/Lebanese strain (again, Skychaser has seeds). Mine have survived several frost nights already without damage, and the small plants were not sensitive neither in early spring (planted out a month before the last frost date). Ripens much faster than other Orientals I have tried, cures well. Some of my overripe leaves have a distinct jasmine smell to them.


Samsun-Maden (ARS-GRIN PI 494161). Can´t comment on flavour yet, since mine is still curing/aging, but I planted that one out much later (end of June, July) and still got it ripe.




Ahus from Sweden may do well for you (but I have no experience myself with that one). Little Dutch should reach maturity fast as well.


Bursa did quite well for me, but I wonder if mine is as sweet and aromatic as others describe theirs. I do like Tik Konlak (Tikolak, Tikolac, Tik KulaK?), which has that incense smell of Bursa, but bigger, cigarish leaves. Baffra Basma also produced some nicely aromatic leaf, if planted in full sun. Xanthi and Prilep do grow well, but I think I´m not getting them ripe enough. They are for me less floral/aromatic than the varieties above, although others describe them as superior.


MICROCLIMATE may make the biggest difference. As I mentioned in another thread, the Orientals I have grown in pots on gravel in the most sunny spot looked more like they should (midget plants with small, sticky leaves) and ripened much faster.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Lakota and Matty,
It is clear from your advice that my greatest concerns are fertilizer and when I start the plants. I only use compost, and until this year when I got a mulching mower, my compost was fairly pathetic. I believe I started in April. I will keep a log this year. My plants were only 1-2" tall when they went outside. Thanks for the seed offer, Lakota, I believe I have enough varieties that some of them must be great too. I need to teach myself about fertilizer, and to plant earlier. I also think I need better grow lights.

Planter,
Sadly, none of my seeds are on your list. Of course I can order those recommendations, and I may. I believe I learned from your advice that some plants are explicitly bred to handle poor weather, like Rot Front, while others are simply smaller plants, like Little Dutch, and the orientals. These are the seeds I presently have, what do you think? From Tom McGregor in Peachland BC - Gold Seal Special Burley, Black Samsun; From the tobaccoseedcompany in UK - Maryland(generic?), Orinoco(Lizard Tail?doesn't specify), and Cuban Criollo; From Northwest Tobacco Seeds - Symbol 4, One Sucker, Adonis, Japan 8, Kumanovo

 

[Planter]

I did not mean so much the size of the plants, but the number of "days to maturity" observed in different varieties. (Skychaser´s website has that information for most.) For example, several people here report Prilep 66-9/7 to be the most floral/aromatic Oriental they have grown, more so than Izmir. In my case, Prilep is growing well, but my Izmir (the Lebanese, that is) is more floral/aromatic (as far I can tell yet). Prilep plants reach maturity in 70-75 days, that´s about the longest growing season I may have. That Lebanese Izmir needs just around 50 days. I think the explanation for the difference in aromatic quality may to a good part lay in there. This year I started as early as February, planted out in April (survived some frost). August and September were very wet. But at that point I had already a good amount of the Izmir harvested and sun-/air-cured in hot conditions. While a lot of the Prilep was still quite green at the end of the summer.
(Note btw. that I´m referring to the Lebanese Izmir strain all the time, Izmir Ozbas needs evidently much longer - 75-80 days.)
I got the Lebanese after reading here that it is growing/maturing so fast. It was a success, I never had so ripe and thick leaves before. I consequently will avoid in future varieties which are especially slow.


Cuban Criollo may work, I heard it just does not grow very large in cooler conditions, but the leaves can still be aromatic and nicotine-heavy.


Adonis is a relatively new variety supposed to be low in nicotine and tolerant of extreme weather conditions. Flavourwise it should be quite similar to Rot Front (which is higher in nicotine). I have no personal experience with it.


Kumanovo needs just 50 days to maturity. Black Sea Samsun and Japan-8 about 65 days, if I remember right. I always wanted to try Japan-8, and may grow it next year.

 

[istanbulin]

Bitlis matures in 30-40 days and it's one of my favorites. The only disadvantage of it is leaf count. You guys may try Bitlis up there.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Gee, that's short. Maybe you could get two harvests in one year.

 

[Matty]

The early start plants were noticably bigger than the later started plants ( middle of April). Once I planted out side in 3 or 4 weeks it was hard to tell the difference between them. Maybe the extra fertilizer you applied was the answer. A 40 inch leaf is huge

You may be right about starting early vs late but I'm still going to start early, just because I like it like that. I'm still growing the varieties you sent me, thanks again. My biggest leaves were on the gold seal burley and golden burley with lengths over 34", longer than my arm. Smoking virginia and canadian virginia got around 30" long. I had a few monster stalks too, some of the bigger stalks were over 3" diameter. I just might be able to get near or over 40" leaves next year, not that I need huge leaves, they just look cool.

Fertilizer is very very important to grow tobacco around my place, the soil has a lot of clay. ChinaVoodoo, there are good fertilizers and bad fertilizers for tobacco, I recommend doing some research. In my case, I avoid fertilizer containing chlorides and urea as they cause the most trouble. Last year all I used was bone and blood meal that I worked into the soil, side dressed with blood meal once and 2 applications of a broad range micronutrient blend. My only complaint (aside from the killing frost) was my leaves were too thin which I've deduced is most likely a PH issue.

 

[deluxestogie]

My Izmir-Ozbas matured in 47 days. The values reported in GRIN are often way off. Also, there is a significant variability in maturation time from one year's weather to the next.

Bob

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

The soil is obviously very different here, as it is almost black, chernozem. I will go get my soil tested and start from there.

 

[Lakota]

Matty I really was not telling you when to start, it was just what i observed in my grow. My growing zone is 2a, I really don't have much time for the plants to reach maturity or have the seed pods go brown. The move from alberta has changed the way i have to grow and also the time for curing. Last year I lost 50 or 60 plants on the 6 of june then i lost more on the 10 of june to heavy frost. After that it rained for 40 days, what was left after that was weak and spindly. They wer just right for the mulch blade on the lawn tractor. So last year was a total right off. I have found a guy who will bring me 3 tandem loads of cow manure that i will till in and raise the tobacco beds, hopefully it will help this years grow if I decide to grow at all.

 

[DGBAMA]

Frost in June sounds like some ROUGH growing.

 

[Matty]

Yeah, frost in june? How would someone even plan for that? I'm thinking of ideas to put up some sort of covering over my patch for later on in the grow season to protect against frost. This past grow's loss was somewhat devastating, took a few days to get over it.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I believe, if its not too cold, the easiest way to protect a large area from frost is to water it the entire time it's below 0°

 

[deluxestogie]

Agribon+ AG-19 row cover will protect to 28ºF/-2ºC.

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/p-5453-agribon-ag-19-floating-row-cover-83-x-250.aspx

Other row cover options: http://www.johnnyseeds.com/c-232-row-cover.aspx

Bob

 

[Lakota]

The frost and heavy rains really took their toll on me, I basicly lost interest after that. I will add more manure and organic material and lift the beds up, hopefully this will give me a chance with the rain water. The frost is something that i will have to deal with by planting around the middle of June, so all the new plants will have to be an early maturing type. The tobacco area is 90 x 70 feet about 250 feet from the nearest water so having a sprinkler system would not work because of pressure loss. All my seedlings will be kept in a greenhouse untill no more chance of frost. If that does not work then it will be my last grow.