The "twist" comes from the form that the bud takes.. it is twisted.
Need some advice guys - varieties to plant
- Thread starter CT Tobaccoman
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The "twist" comes from the form that the bud takes.. it is twisted.
Rickey60
Well-Known Member
CT, you post a very good question. I don't know if anyone has broke down the FC types in order of strength of the finished product, mild, strong.
I think it would be a good idea for someone who has grown different FC types to list how they smoke, (light, mild, strong)
I get most of my FC from Big Bonner. I don't know what type FC he grows but I would say his is light to mild.
I think it would be a good idea for someone who has grown different FC types to list how they smoke, (light, mild, strong)
I get most of my FC from Big Bonner. I don't know what type FC he grows but I would say his is light to mild.
CT Tobaccoman
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that the lighter and paler yellow FC is, the milder it smokes, like Lemon is milder than VA Red. I am wondering if both a "Lemon" type AND a "VA Red type can be obtained from the same plant, low priming mild, cured at lower max temp, high priming stronger, potentially "red" cured at 185 degrees max. Bob's photos show that his FC can become VA Red, and I think he grew VA Bright Leaf, which is the actual name of a varietal as well as a generic term.
Wish it were possible to find out what varietals are grown by farmers who contract with big cigarette companies. Watching an old short about American Tobacco and the making of Camels from the 1950s, it seems that different tpes of FC are blended. Also, I assume that farmers of FC who contract to Big Tobacco don't all grow the same FC varietal.
I am just trying to do my homework here. Probably the most commonly FC types grown commercially would be the ones for me to try. Come to think of it, the guy at the Conn. Ag. Experiment Station (which works with improving Conn. grown shade, broadleaf and Havana Seed,) Jim LaMondia, who has an email alert list for blue mold outbreaks anywhere in the US tobacco states, might know or could easily find out what the commercially grown FC seed types are in North Carolina and elsewhere in the "Flue Belt." I'll email him, or I'll see him in Feb at the annual tobacco growers meeting there--I figure to start seeds last week of February indoors. There is also a good source for info from a N Carolina university, I believe.
Right now, I am leaning toward NC-95 and VA Brightleaf because I think they are widely grown.
You're right, Rickey60, only somebody with a commercial knowledge level of different FC can really answer my question. Probably, I'll end up with some good tobacco but still will have to buy light or strong. I worked 15 years in Conn Shade so I know that well, but that knowledge doesn't cross over into FC. It will be an experiment for me the first couple seasons.
I'm interested in anything anybody in this forum has found out about relative strength of different flue cured types
CT
CT Tobaccoman
Well-Known Member
I get the idea that ytb is a mild burley. A "white" burley as opposed to others, "red" burley--to use an old classification. My problem with burley is that I need some to make a good cigarette but I don't use much because I find it strong. Maybe with ytb I could use more than TN90 for taste without making the blend too strong?
That Bursa sounds pretty cool. A lot of tobacco in not much space. Probably a wide range of mild to strong on a plant like that.
Funny you mention Florida Sumatra. Tho I'm mostly interested this year in growing the cigarette tobacco that I buy most of, I am a cigar smoker who doesn't have enough opportunity to smoke as many as I would like. It's hard enough to have a place to smoke cigarettes around here these days.
But I am thinking I might grow maybe 6-10 FS plants. A beautiful thin wrapper leaf that doesn't require a shade tent. Sumatra has always been a great wrapper. The main reason that Conn Shade replaced it 100 yrs ago was that USA grown tobacco was protected by tariffs then, and until the 1970s, most all cigars smoked in the US were made in the US. Sumatra has done well outside Indonesia too. I think Ecuador and Florida Sumatra are better than Indonesian Sumatra, whereas the best Conn Shade still comes from the Conn Valley--but I'm prejudiced of course.
Thinking about a little H-2000 too but it's finicky.
CT
Rickey60
Well-Known Member
I don't think you can go wrong planting Bursa. I grew it last season and was very pleased with it's height, size of leaf, and flavor. It is on my list to plant again this upcoming season.
Actually what happened was the U.S increased the tarriff on wrapper leaf. The importers of Sumatra leaf labelled theirs as binder. Now having a cheaper source of wrapper leaf, everyone started using Sumatra.
CT Tobaccoman
Well-Known Member
What you describe may have been an earlier attempt to protect CT Broadleaf. A lot of federal gov't money was tied up in the development of Conn shade, and it was well protected by tariff from Sumatra, controlled by the Dutch. One could get cigars with Sumatra wrapper, they were just more expensive.
I have 5 years worth of the New England Tobacco Journal from 1904 to 1908. This was the period when shade was just being perfected in Conn, and Hartford was second only to Richmond as a tobacco warehouse center. Not a trace is left now. The greatest and only real competitor was Sumatra. Yes, there was a lot of illegal mis-labeling of Sumatra at the time. Cuban was another type getting unfavorable tariff, but less, since Cuban was a common filler in US cigars.
The news articles from that time are fascinating. Railroads were tempting tobacco growers to move to East Texas a lot. On the whole, the tariffs were effective enough to ensure that CT shade became the common wrapper on US made cigars, and after time smokers came to prefer the lighter colored shade.
If you or anybody wants to read the New England Tobacco Journal, PM me and I can email it to you. It's in pdf format. I have 5 years of it, and it was a weekly paper. They printed stories about tobacco all over the US and the world, not just Conn. It's buried in the UCONN archives, can't find a link. Fascinating, real time trade journal, extremely informative. I'd be happy to make it available to the forum as a whole as reference material, but I can only email it since google won't give up a link. Or, I could burn it all on a CD and mail it out. Happy to do so.
CT
CT Tobaccoman
Well-Known Member
Sounds good to me too. Does Northwoods have the seed?
Rickey60
Well-Known Member
Yes they do.
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
Bursa is a favorite here too. Nice flavor, easy cure.
ArizonaDave
Well-Known Member
I agree! I have to order some seeds from him soon, unless my late planted Little Dutch finally blooms. It seems to really like the Arizona winter time though! About 65* to 70* in the day, and no frost.
ArizonaDave
Well-Known Member
What does that taste like? I have seed, and am wondering if that could possibly be used in a Cigar.
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
You can put any tobacco in a cigar. LOL.
Being serious though, I have seen mentioned that Bursa grown at wider spacing than traditional (12-16") gives leaf with a "slight cigar character" instead of a traditional "oriental" flavor. It is a part of my regular grow indefinitely. At 12" spacing, they get about 6'tall for me with 10-12" leaves and a nice "floral" note to the smoke.
BarG
Founding Member
I happened to like my bursa quite a bit at 24" spacing.
Bursa has a distinct, incense-like aroma, and can be very sweet. It´s said to be higher in nicotine than other Orientals (I have not made my mind up about that yet, just had a few samples from last summers harvest). It´s a nice addition to a cigar, it also can be smoked on its own. If grown bigger the leaves have a very usable shape and size for cigar-making purposes.
If you have seeds, grow it. It´s quite a decorative plant as well, with eye-catching red flowers. Air-cured leaves turn to a pretty reddish-brown.
If you have seeds, grow it. It´s quite a decorative plant as well, with eye-catching red flowers. Air-cured leaves turn to a pretty reddish-brown.
CT Tobaccoman
Well-Known Member
I see. Incense flavor is not what I want in a cigarette. I don't really have to grow any Oriental, a pound from WLT will last me a long time. Maybe I'll grow a little Izmur or Prilep. Mostly, I want to grow flue cured Virginia, a little YTB to try, a bit of TN90 and maybe a few Conn Broadleaf plants for cigar wrapper. 75% of my 2015 grow will be VA flue, and hope to have space for 50-60 total plants
Anybody know the difference between VA Brightleaf and NC-95? (not sure that is the right number) or other typical VA cigarette tobacco? I noticed that in 2014 Bob managed to produce VA Red at high temp and more lighter leaves too. I think he did it with the VA Brightleaf type.
I'll have to figure out some way to cure FC. Never done that--very different from my experience on Connecticut farms. But there is a lot of info on this forum.
CT
I use either/both Izmir Ozbas and Prilep P66-9/7 in cigarettes. You can't go wrong with either one.
Click the "Observations" link on each page to compare leaf size, plant size, nicotine, etc. between the Virginia Bright Leaf and the NC 95.
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1447357
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1447352
(Not all info available for all varieties)
If you don't feel up to building a flue cure chamber, I have been quite satisfied with sun curing my flue cure varieties. The sweetness falls between flue cured and air cured.
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