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  1. #21
    Moderator Jitterbugdude's Avatar
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    Re: Need some advice guys - varieties to plant

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Tobaccoman View Post
    The word "twist" makes me think of chaw. Is that it's main use--or for pipes? Good for cigarettes?
    The "twist" comes from the form that the bud takes.. it is twisted.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Rickey60's Avatar
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    Re: Need some advice guys - varieties to plant

    CT, you post a very good question. I don't know if anyone has broke down the FC types in order of strength of the finished product, mild, strong.
    I think it would be a good idea for someone who has grown different FC types to list how they smoke, (light, mild, strong)
    I get most of my FC from Big Bonner. I don't know what type FC he grows but I would say his is light to mild.

  3. #23
    Senior Member CT Tobaccoman's Avatar
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    Re: Need some advice guys - varieties to plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickey60 View Post
    CT, you post a very good question. I don't know if anyone has broke down the FC types in order of strength of the finished product, mild, strong.
    I think it would be a good idea for someone who has grown different FC types to list how they smoke, (light, mild, strong)
    I get most of my FC from Big Bonner. I don't know what type FC he grows but I would say his is light to mild.
    It seems to me that the lighter and paler yellow FC is, the milder it smokes, like Lemon is milder than VA Red. I am wondering if both a "Lemon" type AND a "VA Red type can be obtained from the same plant, low priming mild, cured at lower max temp, high priming stronger, potentially "red" cured at 185 degrees max. Bob's photos show that his FC can become VA Red, and I think he grew VA Bright Leaf, which is the actual name of a varietal as well as a generic term.

    Wish it were possible to find out what varietals are grown by farmers who contract with big cigarette companies. Watching an old short about American Tobacco and the making of Camels from the 1950s, it seems that different tpes of FC are blended. Also, I assume that farmers of FC who contract to Big Tobacco don't all grow the same FC varietal.

    I am just trying to do my homework here. Probably the most commonly FC types grown commercially would be the ones for me to try. Come to think of it, the guy at the Conn. Ag. Experiment Station (which works with improving Conn. grown shade, broadleaf and Havana Seed,) Jim LaMondia, who has an email alert list for blue mold outbreaks anywhere in the US tobacco states, might know or could easily find out what the commercially grown FC seed types are in North Carolina and elsewhere in the "Flue Belt." I'll email him, or I'll see him in Feb at the annual tobacco growers meeting there--I figure to start seeds last week of February indoors. There is also a good source for info from a N Carolina university, I believe.

    Right now, I am leaning toward NC-95 and VA Brightleaf because I think they are widely grown.

    You're right, Rickey60, only somebody with a commercial knowledge level of different FC can really answer my question. Probably, I'll end up with some good tobacco but still will have to buy light or strong. I worked 15 years in Conn Shade so I know that well, but that knowledge doesn't cross over into FC. It will be an experiment for me the first couple seasons.

    I'm interested in anything anybody in this forum has found out about relative strength of different flue cured types

    CT

  4. #24
    Senior Member CT Tobaccoman's Avatar
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    Re: Need some advice guys - varieties to plant

    Quote Originally Posted by rustycase View Post
    CT, the YTB is quite a bit different than the TN90. I would not pitch one in favor of the other.
    If you are still considering orientals for your grow, I would suggest Bursa. A columnar plant that will grow in excess of 8ft tall and main leaves the size of a serving plate ain't nothing to sneeze at, in the class of Turkish tobaccos, which generally run smallish. And it cures easily!
    I can see where you are most interested in the Virginias, and that's all well and good. I would suggest you grow a small amount of Florida Sumatra. It's a magnificent plant, as they go, is good in blends, and for cigars or pipe. DS should have nice pics of them.
    Best
    rc
    I get the idea that ytb is a mild burley. A "white" burley as opposed to others, "red" burley--to use an old classification. My problem with burley is that I need some to make a good cigarette but I don't use much because I find it strong. Maybe with ytb I could use more than TN90 for taste without making the blend too strong?

    That Bursa sounds pretty cool. A lot of tobacco in not much space. Probably a wide range of mild to strong on a plant like that.

    Funny you mention Florida Sumatra. Tho I'm mostly interested this year in growing the cigarette tobacco that I buy most of, I am a cigar smoker who doesn't have enough opportunity to smoke as many as I would like. It's hard enough to have a place to smoke cigarettes around here these days.

    But I am thinking I might grow maybe 6-10 FS plants. A beautiful thin wrapper leaf that doesn't require a shade tent. Sumatra has always been a great wrapper. The main reason that Conn Shade replaced it 100 yrs ago was that USA grown tobacco was protected by tariffs then, and until the 1970s, most all cigars smoked in the US were made in the US. Sumatra has done well outside Indonesia too. I think Ecuador and Florida Sumatra are better than Indonesian Sumatra, whereas the best Conn Shade still comes from the Conn Valley--but I'm prejudiced of course.

    Thinking about a little H-2000 too but it's finicky.

    CT

  5. #25
    Senior Member Rickey60's Avatar
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    Re: Need some advice guys - varieties to plant

    I don't think you can go wrong planting Bursa. I grew it last season and was very pleased with it's height, size of leaf, and flavor. It is on my list to plant again this upcoming season.

  6. #26
    Moderator Jitterbugdude's Avatar
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    Re: Need some advice guys - varieties to plant

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Tobaccoman View Post
    . The main reason that Conn Shade replaced it 100 yrs ago was that USA grown tobacco was protected by tariffs then, and until the 1970s, most all cigars smoked in the US were made in the US.
    Actually what happened was the U.S increased the tarriff on wrapper leaf. The importers of Sumatra leaf labelled theirs as binder. Now having a cheaper source of wrapper leaf, everyone started using Sumatra.

  7. #27
    Senior Member CT Tobaccoman's Avatar
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    Re: Need some advice guys - varieties to plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Jitterbugdude View Post
    Actually what happened was the U.S increased the tarriff on wrapper leaf. The importers of Sumatra leaf labelled theirs as binder. Now having a cheaper source of wrapper leaf, everyone started using Sumatra.
    What you describe may have been an earlier attempt to protect CT Broadleaf. A lot of federal gov't money was tied up in the development of Conn shade, and it was well protected by tariff from Sumatra, controlled by the Dutch. One could get cigars with Sumatra wrapper, they were just more expensive.

    I have 5 years worth of the New England Tobacco Journal from 1904 to 1908. This was the period when shade was just being perfected in Conn, and Hartford was second only to Richmond as a tobacco warehouse center. Not a trace is left now. The greatest and only real competitor was Sumatra. Yes, there was a lot of illegal mis-labeling of Sumatra at the time. Cuban was another type getting unfavorable tariff, but less, since Cuban was a common filler in US cigars.

    The news articles from that time are fascinating. Railroads were tempting tobacco growers to move to East Texas a lot. On the whole, the tariffs were effective enough to ensure that CT shade became the common wrapper on US made cigars, and after time smokers came to prefer the lighter colored shade.

    If you or anybody wants to read the New England Tobacco Journal, PM me and I can email it to you. It's in pdf format. I have 5 years of it, and it was a weekly paper. They printed stories about tobacco all over the US and the world, not just Conn. It's buried in the UCONN archives, can't find a link. Fascinating, real time trade journal, extremely informative. I'd be happy to make it available to the forum as a whole as reference material, but I can only email it since google won't give up a link. Or, I could burn it all on a CD and mail it out. Happy to do so.

    CT

  8. #28
    Senior Member CT Tobaccoman's Avatar
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    Re: Need some advice guys - varieties to plant

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickey60 View Post
    I don't think you can go wrong planting Bursa. I grew it last season and was very pleased with it's height, size of leaf, and flavor. It is on my list to plant again this upcoming season.
    Sounds good to me too. Does Northwoods have the seed?

  9. #29
    Senior Member Rickey60's Avatar
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    Re: Need some advice guys - varieties to plant

    Quote Originally Posted by CT Tobaccoman View Post
    Sounds good to me too. Does Northwoods have the seed?
    Yes they do.

  10. #30
    Senior Member DGBAMA's Avatar
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    Re: Need some advice guys - varieties to plant

    Bursa is a favorite here too. Nice flavor, easy cure.

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