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why are we controlled??

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Ben Brand

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Reading the posts for seed grow outs I see that it is illegal to grow tobacco in Aus I don't know why, but this is what happened to me.

Here in SA we can grow anything exept weed, which are grown by many I'm sure. In Sa all tobacco are controlled by a few Co Ops and only they can provide the growers with seed and only them can buy the tobacco from the farmers and only BAT ( British American Tobaccos) can buy from the Co Ops.

When I started my cigar tobacco growing hobby I spoke about it to friends and my story got out to one of the Directors of one of the Co ops that has a branch in the town I was living in. He saw me one day and ask me where and how am I'm doing thiis, after telling him my plans etc he then ask me about the seeds, I told him that I got it from the USA ( Deluxe), he asked me to please not go ahead with my hobby.

His reasons: I might bring in new tobacco diseases from the USA to SA.
The tobacco I planted might cross polinate with the SA varieties.
I can't bring in seeds that is not from a reputable seed supplier, because of the diseases.
Bla bla bla
He basicly told me I can't plant cigar tobacco in SA.

My responds: I am doing this as a hobby and are not making cigars for selling (yet).
If he can stop all the veg etc growers in SA that gets their seeds from from other countries then I will stop.
If he can supply me with enough cigars or cigar tobacco to smoke at least on a day I will stop.
I told him he can not stop me from growing my tobacco.

What I'm trying to say with this long story is, why are they trying to stop us, here and in Aus, do they think that a few home growers will topple their tobacco empire?

I think that was the motive of that director, he knew he couldn't stop me, but he thought he will give it a go.

He saw me a few times but never mentioned it again.
Myabe we must start questioning all these rules and regulations. Start a tobacco revolution.
Ben
 
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FmGrowit

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Governments worldwide are out of control. Tobacco is the Golden Fleece or a more contemporary version, the goose that laid the golden egg. More tax has been collected on tobacco than money has been printed in the history of the world.

You're safer growing dope than messing with the governments tobacco.
 

Markw

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My friend who worked for BAT from the day he left school till he took early retirement has always said that tobacco is a currency, or a slave token.Thing's have not changed for hundreds of years, we all know it is free as we grow it in our free time, as Don has said it is for tax and revenue generation, government's just don't like you having anything for free. If you remember you have to work for something that is free.!!!!!
Ben your FREE seeds are on their way.
 

darren1979

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The UK government in 2012/13 collected 12.3 billion from duty and vat on tobacco alone. Alcohol was 14.6 billion and has been in decline for years while revenue from tobacco has been on the rise.
The more people who grow there own or buy whole leaf they see as a threat. Pure and simple it comes down to greed.
 

Ben Brand

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:cool:
My friend who worked for BAT from the day he left school till he took early retirement has always said that tobacco is a currency, or a slave token.Thing's have not changed for hundreds of years, we all know it is free as we grow it in our free time, as Don has said it is for tax and revenue generation, government's just don't like you having anything for free. If you remember you have to work for something that is free.!!!!!
Ben your FREE seeds are on their way.
Mark
I thank you KIND Sir for the seeds. I convinced my son in the UK to get me a 52 x 71/2 mold (single) from ebay, they apparently do not ship to SA.
Enjoy your xmas, hope the weather is not to bad for you. I can remember when I lived in the UK the bookies taking bets on snow for xmas. Your'e a strange lot.
:cool:
 

Ben Brand

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Chillardbee, Not really that stricked. I owe 3 rifles and a pistol. Some people owes lots more. Its a pain to get licences for the firearms, but with a lot of patience you can get them. The problem is the unlicensed firearms. That`s the ones that gets used in the hijackings and robberies, and that the ones the police force must get rid off.
My firearms are only for protection, don`t do hunting anymore ( gone soft I suppose), I didn`t buy the rifles, inheritance from my late father. Want to give my pistol to the Mrs and get me a big boy .50 or something, got a 9mm at the moment.
 

webmost

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... why are they trying to stop us, here and in Aus...

Why? Clearly for your own good, Ben. As Jonathan Gruber has so aptly pointed out, you are obviously too damn dumb to know what's good for you, thus giving the intellectual elite a responsibility to do your thinking for you and foist it down your ignorant throat. Because they mean well they give themselves permission to do ill. That's how the road to hell got paved with good intentions. Once a certainty of the good intentions of a cause gets coupled with power, the enthusiasts of that cause feel a moral obligation to do bad in order to achieve good.

The signal issue facing mankind today is not gorebull warbling, nuclear demise, or exploding population. It is this:

Will the future have room for autonomous individuals?
Or are we headed toward an ant-hive existence?
 

Texasgrown

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I had a friend in Perth AU that was a farmer and heard the story of him buying a gun took the better part of a year. Here in Texas you can buy a gun anywhere in just about any caliber. They do frown on anything surface to air though :). We have concealed handgun classes that seat 200 at a time and are booked solid. I hunt a lot and most of what I have is for that reason.

Sad to hear about the the tobacco seeds. The contamination argument is old school with so much being part of the global community now adays. Best you can do as a farmer is keep other farmers off your crops. There are some things out there that I think are legit concerns from farmers but most originate from the big seed companies to protect profit. We get fire blight, and borer beetles in our orchards that came from China. We also have small hive beetles from Africa in our beehives that rally sprang up in the last few years. It's sad to loose a 40 year old pear tree but that's evolution. I just planted 30 more Resistant ones to replace.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I don't know about Australia, but in Canada it's at a point where it would be best to lay low in my opinion. I can only imagine that if hobby growers got vocal about getting more rights, that anti-smoking groups would wake up to a new enemy they never knew existed. I can only imagine what such groups, government organizations, and tobacco companies would do if they knew non -aboriginals were allowed 15kg of tax free tobacco every year, (even if they grew a tenth of that).
 

Ben Brand

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Funny story this. The company I work for doesn't allow smoking on its premisses, but one old farmer( loads of money, good for bussines), tiny guy, came in one day with his cigarette, management asked him politely to go outside with his cigarette. His answer " I bought this cigarette with my $%¤& money, I decide where I smoke it" he is still smoking when he comes in, they leave him now or lose him as a client.
Maybe everyone must stand up for their rights!!!!
 

Lakota

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In Canada, Ontario as of Jan 1 2015 no one will be allowed to grow without a permit. I think it won't be long before all provinces follow. That will be the end of legal growing in my opinion. In 3 years ( just a guess) I think all tobacco growing will be illigal and hefty fines or jail will be the end result. Importers of tobacco will also need a permit and also face heavy duty fees, even cigars will have a heavy duty. Looks like the end is near in my opinion.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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In Canada, Ontario as of Jan 1 2015 no one will be allowed to grow without a permit. I think it won't be long before all provinces follow. That will be the end of legal growing in my opinion. In 3 years ( just a guess) I think all tobacco growing will be illigal and hefty fines or jail will be the end result. Importers of tobacco will also need a permit and also face heavy duty fees, even cigars will have a heavy duty. Looks like the end is near in my opinion.

Merry Christmas. Start saving seed guys.
 

deluxestogie

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Looks like the end is near in my opinion.
Some end is always near. The difficulty is in recognizing which end to worry about.

A few years ago, I was sitting out on my front porch one autumn night, working on my laptop computer as midnight approached. Each time I turned my head, I heard a small rodent shuffle through the dry leaves just beyond the porch and its comfortable patch of light. The events that followed were only heard at close range, but I saw nothing. The next morning I penned this sonnet.

deluxestogie said:
PERHAPS AN OWL

The Angel of Death swept by my porch last night.
Although I could not see him, he was there
nonetheless. His visit did not scare
me from my cynicism or set right
my science-tainted soul, although his flight
on silent wings that swoop unseen to snare
a hapless rat in taloned grip, then flare
on heavy beats evoked the screams of fright
that faded hopelessly into the raw
uncaring darkness. I had watched a fat
elusive rodent dashing furtively,
responding to my slightest moves. It saw
only me, while carelessly it sat,
awaiting death from its true enemy.

Bob
 

Lakota

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BOB I don’t worry much about things I cannot change, As far as the end is concerned I agree with you. It could be just around the next corner.
I was just stating an opinion about the legality of growing and another law to make me healthier, If I grow any more I doubt the new law will change what I grow, I might have to move my patch a little out of sight of the locals or the RCMP. Then I will have to be quiet about growing
Life is just too short to worry about things to come. Life puts enough turns and twists in the road without making my own. Russ
PS:I like the sonnet
 

ArizonaDave

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WWII was won on coffee and cigarettes. I don't see what the big fuss is about. I agree that Big Tobacco is harmful, but I disagree that a miniature tobacco grow would harm anyone.

I have chronic pain every day, and when it get's bad, a good Cigar seems to help a lot!!!
 

Lakota

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Dave I don't think anyone other than the goverment is making it a big deal, retailers of legal smokes make a whole 65 cents per pack. Most of the money is tax that goes to "Health" Canada and Provincial coffers. I understand the gov wanting to stop illegal cross border trade of tobacco. The contraban tobacco would run into the millions of dollars of lost revenue. The new Ontario law makes it illigal for anyone to grow or process tobacco without a permit. I do not know how hard it will be to get a permit but with red tape and the mandatory gov screw up I think it will be almost impossible to obtain a permit. Once the other Provinces see the lost revenue they will jump on the bandwagon or should I say cash cow. The whole law seems to be about lost money ( Bill C10) In my 60 plus years I have never seen the goverments miss out on extra revenue. Russ
 
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