Questions Regarding Wrapper during Rolling Process

[CORoller55]

I was using scissors to cut the cap, haha. Im going to get some copper pipe here soon though to do it better for me. And ya, my caps were still too big - today Im gonna give it another go with a smaller cap... I know I dont need the triple cap - but I figure, why not? I like a challenge...

Thanks for all the advice. Ill keep you guys posted with any other ridiculously newb questions I am likely to have, and maybe a pic of a stick or two once Ive got some that Im proud of

 

[Knucklehead]

What are you using for glue?

 

[Gdaddy]

All Nic. Fillers, Dom. Binder and CT 1 DW wrapper... Next Im gonna order a sampler of maybe 20 types of leaves to play with.... Construction has greatly imrpoved, I'd say. But yes, I am trying to find the right flavours - as you may be able to see each cigar has a different blend, with it written on the label to keep track of it. So far I havent found a favorite ratio to tweak with.

Ligero adds a lot of flavor. WLT Criollo 98 ligero is some nice stuff you may want to consider.

 

[Smokin Harley]

I was using scissors to cut the cap, haha. Im going to get some copper pipe here soon though to do it better for me. And ya, my caps were still too big - today Im gonna give it another go with a smaller cap... I know I dont need the triple cap - but I figure, why not? I like a challenge...

Thanks for all the advice. Ill keep you guys posted with any other ridiculously newb questions I am likely to have, and maybe a pic of a stick or two once Ive got some that Im proud of

Hey CO, post whatever you roll. no better way to improve .

 

[CORoller55]

Hey guys, just got back from a business trip, so sorry for the delay...

My rolling is getting better - and best of all - so is my construction and flavor! My last cigar was actually enjoyable to smoke, and smoke I did - right down to the nub! and I gave 2 to some business partners and they were quite impressed, haha. In fact, theyre already asking for more! Im still testing my blends, but my last cigar was 2 parts seco 2 parts ligero with Dom. binder and wrapper, and I really liked it.

For glue I am using gum arabic and tragacanth.

 

[charlie G.]

It sure sounds like your on your way CORoller. Enjoy

 

[Smokin Harley]

Good job COroller55... keep on rollin'

 

[CORoller55]

from last nights rolling session (still free-rolling and cutting the cap with scissors, haha):

 

[CORoller55]

Hi guys...

An update and some questions.

Ive ordered a large variety of leaf samples and theyre on the way now, so Ill be trying some more blends soon. As of now Ive rolled 20 - something stogies and theyre looking and burning much better.

I have 2 questions however. First, a lot of the cigars are bitter, especially at the foot and during the first third. Some of them have been somewhat bitter throughout the smoke. What causes this and how can I avoid it? Something that I always remember between smoking cubans and other cigars is that most of the cigars available in the US start off slightly bitter at the foot (although not near as bitter as mine) whereas the cubans Ive smoked have been mostly bitterless from the start. Any ideas on the reasons behind all of this?

Secondly, I have found that cigars Im rolling with a similar blend have been tasting differently, and I have no idea why. For example, Ive rolled several blends of 1/2 seco and 1/2 ligero - the first one was great, the second one was very mild, the third one bitter and less flavourful, the fourth was once again not quite the same. How can I get more consistent flavors? Any of youse also have this trouble - different strengths/fortalezas between cigars of the same blend?

I appreciate all the answers and I will keep people updated when I get my sample of leaves.

 

[webmost]

First, a lot of the cigars are bitter, especially at the foot and during the first third. Some of them have been somewhat bitter throughout the smoke. What causes this and how can I avoid it?

My amateur two cents: Give them more time, and do so in a humidor or cooler where you keep the RH down to 65%. Not only do the flavors meld with age, but any filler or binder which may be slightly damp needs to dry out properly. This takes a couple months. I know that's easy advice to give but impossible to follow; so I suggest you try this: Roll two of the same, smoke the one, salt the other away for Spring. Keep copious notes of how the one you smoked today tasted. Compare that with how the other smokes in April or May. See if you don't agree.

Secondly, I have found that cigars Im rolling with a similar blend have been tasting differently, and I have no idea why.

Each leaf is a different size; so inevitably, your blend changes, because one leaf in this is unequal to one leaf in that. At the same time, unless you use a mold the proportion of binder and wrapper to filler also changes as the diameter changes. Nor are you likely to cut two wrappers the same nor to wrap them the same number of turns. Likewise, you cut the stem out of your binder, use one half on one cigar, the other half on another ... but the two binder halves are far from the same size.

But what do I know. Ask the gurus.

One day I'll be better at this, and then I'll know all these answers. Right now, I guess.

 

[Gdaddy]

Your filler should be very dry when you roll the cigar. Near the point of cracking but not quite. The thicker ligero leaf is especially prone to holding moisture so make sure you get it very dry. If it's moist and pliable then it will taste bitter, burn poorly and can even develop mold pretty quickly.

Don't use any glue on the foot of the cigar. Not on the binder nor the wrapper. They don't need glue. Glue on the head end only.

After rolling the filler should be dry, the binder is slightly moist and the wrapper is wet. I then set them out on a table in an air-conditioned room RH of 55% for 4 or 5 days BEFORE placing them in the humidor of 63% rh. This drys them out immediately with no chance of mold developing and gets them all uniform.

That's my two cents.

 

[CORoller55]

Webmost and Gdaddy, thanks a lot for your answers.

I believe I simply need to be more patient - easier said than done, isnt it! I have been leaving my sticks out in the open for about 24 hours or a bit more, at approx RH40% lately before putting them in the humidor - this may very well be the reason why they are smoking bitter - that and they likely need to age.

As far as the filler goes - it will turn to dust in my hands if i dont give it a light spritz, so thats what i usually do. I havent had any issues so far with rolling too tight, so I think my filler is about the right moisture levels.

Hey, another question from the top of my head. Would anybody mind posting pictures or explaining their leaf preparation setups, if anyone has anything unique? As Ive mentioned, Ive been throwing my leaves in a bag, misting them, and letting them sit. I havent liked this method too much so far, and was thinking of trying other methods.

One method I thought of was to buy one of those plastic stackable storage containers (whatever you call them) and adding wire racks to each one for the leaf to sit on, then cutting a hole in the bottom of each container and taking out the bottom container and placing a humidifer in its place to provide the water vapor. I think I explained that terribly. Let me offer a sketch:

 

[Gdaddy]

Here's a video from Michael Stewart on leaf storage and conditioning and he uses something similar for leaf humidification. Might give you some ideas. It's important to understand that he says he only puts the leaves in the moist air for a couple of days as mold will begin to form on them rather quickly.

 

[FmGrowit]

Good video...scary looking leaf.

Mike has just recently become a customer...the video was shot in 2012. Your leaf should never come in a condition that you should have to go through this process. I'm not sure if this system would work for preparing wrapper either.

Quick note on the "Ecuador Shade" in the video. Ecuador Shade is color graded in at least 17 different shades...lightest being the highest quality. The leaf in this video looks like Maduro. Either there was a mistake in the video, labeling of the product or that is the poorest grade "Shade" wrapper I've ever seen.

Not all "CT Shade seed leaf" (regardless of origin) is created equally.

 

[CORoller55]

Ive heard of Michael Stewart (cant watch that video in China since youtube is blocked) is he somebody I should be aware of? Does he sell cigars or something?

I have also noticed myself a lot of variation in color in the CT 1 DW Maduro Leaf that I bought. Some of it is Colorado, some a Maduro color... Also, massive veins. How do you guys deal with that issue?

 

[Gdaddy]

Ive heard of Michael Stewart (cant watch that video in China since youtube is blocked) is he somebody I should be aware of? Does he sell cigars or something?

I have also noticed myself a lot of variation in color in the CT 1 DW Maduro Leaf that I bought. Some of it is Colorado, some a Maduro color... Also, massive veins. How do you guys deal with that issue?

Sorry you can't watch you tube. It's a helpful tool.Michael Stewart is a hand roller that put out a series of home videos. He doesn't sell cigars.

You need to use the outer most part of the leaf closest to the outer edge where the veins are thinner. Next time you might want to select a thinner wrapper with smaller veins. The 1 DW is 'medium to heavy thickness'. WLT has equador shade wrapper that's has small veins. In general I find lighter colors(shade grown) to have small veins and darker maduros to have larger veins. Next time, before you order, ask Don what he would suggest for what you're looking for.

 

[Langhorne]

If there were a perfect hydration number for a filler, what would it be? Is there one of those Boveda packets that comes in that number? I've got too dry and too wet down pat. haha

 

[DIY Pete]

If there were a perfect hydration number for a filler, what would it be? Is there one of those Boveda packets that comes in that number? I've got too dry and too wet down pat. haha

I don't think there is a perfect number. I personally roll with my filler in medium case, I just get a better more consistent roll that way. They take a little longer to dry down to a smoke able moisture level but that's not a big deal.

Pete

 

[CORoller55]

Hey guys,

Now that I have several wrappers and fillers I am really trying to find a good blend. Right now Im interested in finding a good blend for the CT 1 DW Maduro leaf, I like the way it smells - chocolatey and musty, and sweet on my lips. I was wondering if any of you have any nice blends you wouldnt mind sharing with me, that use the CT Maduro wrapper? Ive been using Nicaraguan filler, and although I love the stuff, I think its too powerful for the CT Maduro.

Best,

Lucas

 

[Old#12]

Hey Lucas,
If you love the Maduro as I do and you don't like a cigar with a lot of strength then cut way back on the Ligero especially if you're using Nic. Ligero. Use mostly seco with maybe a little viso if you have it. If you want a milder smoke use Dominican, Honduran, or even some kind of Indonesian in your blend. Have some fun. #12