Questions Regarding Wrapper during Rolling Process

[CORoller55]

Hey everyone, Ive been rolling stealthily lately and Ill have some pics to post soon. Im almost out of wrapper leaf now. I also finally got a mold, the 54 x 7. Im going to break it in tonight - I hope the results are good enough, but Ive only got Maduro CT wrapper now which I always have trouble with. I find the veins are huge, the leaf is thick but not durable, and the angle of the veins are odd.

Anyways, today I rolled 6 perfectos free-hand, just for the heck of it and to get a feel for it. And DAMN its hard! They came out looking butt-ugly! And, its brought up a whole bunch of new questions that I wanted to ask you old-hands about.

The part Im struggling with now is the bunch. Ive seen the wrapper process, and I think I will figure it out with time. But I cant for the life of me figure out how to bunch the filler to get a true and reliable perfecto shape! Today I tried rolling up my leaves entubado, then ripping off the tip of the bunch and packing it in the middle, and then doing the same with the end.

Any advice from you guys? How do y'all do it? Ive barely found anything on the internets, seems like perfecto rolling is a secret art form?

 

[webmost]

... today I rolled 6 perfectos free-hand, just for the heck of it and to get a feel for it. And DAMN its hard! They came out looking butt-ugly! And, its brought up a whole bunch of new questions that I wanted to ask you old-hands about.

The part Im struggling with now is the bunch.

Here's my meager YouTube channel. Has a vid on bunching, as well as one on wrapping and a longer vid showing FX Smith's Sons cigar making machine. I agree with you, there are too many wrapping vids and not enough bunching vids. Also, all cigar vids I see are profligate with their leaves. Me, I try to make virtually no waste. Nothing's getting chopped off the ends.

The bunching vid is quick and simple cause I do it quick and simple. Do not labor over your task. Do not over-think it. Just git 'er done. The natural shape of tobacco leaves is such that they naturally produce a perfecto shape anyway. If it takes you more than a couple minutes then you are doing it wrong.


Feel a cigar. Then... Feel your bunch.

 

[Knucklehead]

Web, did you mean to post a video link? It's not there.

 

[waikikigun]

The vids I've seen of this shape being bunched show it the way you said it. Use the bits you tear off top and bottom and stuff'em in the middle to make the shape.

 

[CORoller55]

ok guys heres a couple of pics... plz dont laugh at my perfectos!!! wrapper is CT Maduro. This was my first time using my mold.

 

[BarG]

Well they do look kind of funny, but do they smoke. Heh heh.

 

[ArizonaDave]

The vids I've seen of this shape being bunched show it the way you said it. Use the bits you tear off top and bottom and stuff'em in the middle to make the shape.

Almost right......except the wrapper is cut into an "S" shape, the tips are left, and some of the bottom cut. Then again, Webmost would be the one to ask, he makes a lot of them.

 

[CORoller55]

i tried to make an s shaped wrapper but it was hard predicting where the bends should be to correspond with the thickness of the bunch... i guess i just need practice practice practice! i just wish somebody would make a perfecto video from start to finish... ive only seen one from the la aurora factory i believe, where they just applied the wrapper.

 

[webmost]

Well that's weird. I dunno why the link didn't appear. Let's try this again:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Nh_bRHgFFIvaAHVrAxrrw?view_as=public

Try that. Gimme a shout if this link doesn't work. Can't tell why it would disappear like that.

I don't S my wrapper, CORoller... just because exactly what you said... how do you predict? I sure can't. I think everyone suggests cutting an S just because everyone else they read suggested cutting an S. The S wastes a ton of leaf, too. I tried cutting wrapper from a pattern I traced from an FX Smith's perfecto wrapper die; cause those are just about the size I make. That pattern is not an S either -- it's a lozenge with a truncated point on one end and a curlicue on the other. Gave that up cause I figured out I am not as exactly repetitious as a machine. Their machine wrapper only overlaps a quarter inch! They can stamp two or three wraps out of one half of a big PA or CT broadleaf. I only get one out of each half habano, and the remainder makes a nice binder.

I cut a strip about two or two and a half inches wide off the outer edge of a habano leaf. A bit narrower at the foot. The end of the leaf goes at the foot of the cigar. I trim the very edgemost off that strip just to have a sharp edge on my wrapper seam. That trim cut begins with a scoop an inch or two up from the leaf tip. I lay the pointed foot of the perfecto right there to begin. None of this is scientific in the least. First off, each leaf edge curves differently. Second, the chavetta is a crude tool. Third, each leaf may have some defect you are cutting around. Fourth, I am not so deft as I hope some day to be.

I should make another vid, this time showing how to prepare wrapper. I am busier than a centipede trimming his toenails, right now, and heading out for a motorcycle adventure this weekend (where we'll be smoking plenty of Uppowoc Perfectos). I'll try and shoe horn some time for that after I return.

Not every variety of wrapper leaf is suitable for this. FX Smith's Sons use broadleaf. I've had best luck with habano, cause, number one, it's very flexible, so it stretches over the shape; then, number two, I love that leaf, the way it tastes.

Then put them in a box and let them set several months.

 

[Smokin Harley]

Web, Those have to be some of the best looking perfectos anywhere.
Where ya riding to? Ride safe my friend and keep the shiny side up!

 

[Smokin Harley]

ok guys heres a couple of pics... plz dont laugh at my perfectos!!! wrapper is CT Maduro. This was my first time using my mold.


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Getting a wrapper to roll and lay smooth takes a lot of practice. As was said before , the area of the leaf closest to the midrib is cut out ,save for binder on the next stick...trim the outer edge of the leaf cleanly. any jagged edge will show and most likely wont roll or lay right either. I cut the tip end of my wrapper leaf about an inch and a half with almost a 90* angle where the foot of the cigar will be . Once rolled this should make a clean looking foot with no additional trimming needed.When you start your wrapper the tip of the leaf is wrapped over the foot ,your other hand spreads the leaf out sideways with thumb and index finger-almost as if you were on a cell phone expanding a picture (get the idea?)and your other three fingers keep slight smoothing tension on the rest of the leaf. Your rolling hand gently rolls the cigar into the wrapper . If it has a wrinkle in it as you go , back off and resmooth the wrapper leaf. When you get to the head end ,thats where you have to "get the feel " of cutting the flag and/or curlicue to finish the single cap. OR just pigtail it ,and tuck the tip of the tail back under what twisted up . I like how a pigtail looks.
To be honest ,I still have my perfecto mould but don't really use it. I like a bigger ring cigar and have been getting better at freehanding toros . Its good you have a mould , makes learning wrapping with consecutively similar size and shape cigars that much easier.
Keep watching the videos . keep watching the wrapping and capping parts.

 

[webmost]

Where ya riding to?

I own a BMW R1200CLC, a Kawasucky KLR650, and a brand new Indian Scout. The R12Cs are called "chromeheads" cause the valve covers are uniquely chromed. We chromeheads gather every year, the tail end of April, at an old farm beside the shore of Lake Conesus in Livonia New York, way up toward Canada. It's usually cold enough so that a bonfire and a bit of rye whiskey are in order, just to keep warm, you know. Snow is not uncommon. Sleet last year en route. Beer, lasagna, beer, barbecue, and beer are all provided. And beer. We call it TDC, for Tech Day Conesus. But the day stretches over a long weekend, and the tech gives way to spitting, drinking, smoking, and swapping lies. Let's put it this way: our host's wife goes and stays with her sister in law this weekend, while his father drives up from Florida to attend.

I'm riding the Indian up. Be a good shake down test for it. I hope to take a detour so'd I can stop by Leaf Lover's lounge on the way. I'll snap some pics there for ya.

Taking a fistful of "It's a Scout!" cigars to pass around.

Hell, you ought to dust off the Harley and swing up to Leaf Lover's place on Friday. Bring a bedroll and continue up to the lake with me. We got beer.

 

[Ben Brand]

I own a BMW R1200CLC, a Kawasucky KLR650, and a brand new Indian Scout. The R12Cs are called "chromeheads" cause the valve covers are uniquely chromed. We chromeheads gather every year, the tail end of April, at an old farm beside the shore of Lake Conesus in Livonia New York, way up toward Canada. It's usually cold enough so that a bonfire and a bit of rye whiskey are in order, just to keep warm, you know. Snow is not uncommon. Sleet last year en route. Beer, lasagna, beer, barbecue, and beer are all provided. And beer. We call it TDC, for Tech Day Conesus. But the day stretches over a long weekend, and the tech gives way to spitting, drinking, smoking, and swapping lies. Let's put it this way: our host's wife goes and stays with her sister in law this weekend, while his father drives up from Florida to attend.

I'm riding the Indian up. Be a good shake down test for it. I hope to take a detour so'd I can stop by Leaf Lover's lounge on the way. I'll snap some pics there for ya.

Taking a fistful of "It's a Scout!" cigars to pass around.

Hell, you ought to dust off the Harley and swing up to Leaf Lover's place on Friday. Bring a bedroll and continue up to the lake with me. We got beer.

Sounds like fun. Enjoy. Have a safe trip!!!!!

 

[webmost]

SmokinHarley, come on. Speed thru a couple honey do's, get yourself a kitchen pass, gas up the paint shaker, and ride on out. Leaf Lover is rolling two or three hundred a week. I'd be surprised if we couldn't learn valuable tips from him. Conesus is no farther from you than from me.

Spring!

 

[Smokin Harley]

Haha, sounds very tempting and a huge thank you for the invitation but my weekend is already booked up . Taking the wife out for a Sunday Funday Harley spin somewhere. Supposed to hit 78*+ here and she's been talking it up for a month. Besides I got a call yesterday to go to work on Monday so I'll be back in the work eat sleep repeat mode for a couple months anyway.
Take pics along the way and post em up ...
Do we even have a "what other hobbies do you have besides talking about, growing , chewing, and smoking tobacco?" folder?

 

[Knucklehead]

Do we even have a "what other hobbies do you have besides talking about, growing , chewing, and smoking tobacco?" folder?

We have a "General Discussions" forum that you can start a thread in. There's all kinds of miscellaneous there.

 

[CORoller55]

OK, back with more questions as I knew I would be....

These new questions stem from me recently smoking the first non-cuban cigars and non-home rolled cigars that Ive had in over 2 years. I smoked a padron maduro 3000, oliva serie V, and Liga Privada t 52. Now, one of the first things I noticed is these 3 cigars all had a similar smell (just whiffing the stick) that is different from my home-rolled. Why might this be? Isnt it the same tobaccos? And why would all my sticks, with different tobaccos smell similar, and the store-bought sticks with different tobaccos smell similar, but my home-rolled vs store bought are different?

Second, I noticed that these cigars didnt squish like mine do. I am using a mold now. The factory cigars held their shape better and the heads dont deform at all while smoking. I dont get this in my cigars unless they are over stuffed with baccy. What gives? Do they just let their cigars sit longer in the mold?

Lastly, I got to really appreciate the flavors of my home-rolled, and generally the flavors are similar and perform favorably compared to the factory sticks. I just had a great home-rolled which was chocolaty and musty, with a hint of vanilla and spice and held on to a 2 inch ash. BUT, the store bought sticks, after lighting and smoking the first few puffs, seem to mellow out. Whereas mine seem to stay somewhat harsh. I dont know how to explain it, but I guess my sticks have more acidity, sometimes a meaty flavor, and often at the end I just get a stronger burnt taste. Most of my sticks are aged a month. Is this simply due to them resting their sticks much longer than mine?

Thanks for all the useful and insightful help you all can offer. I am quite sad that I will be running out of leaf soon and unable to purchase more for at least the time being.

 

[webmost]

OK, back with more questions as I knew I would be....

These new questions stem from me recently smoking the first non-cuban cigars and non-home rolled cigars that Ive had in over 2 years. I smoked a padron maduro 3000, oliva serie V, and Liga Privada t 52. Now, one of the first things I noticed is these 3 cigars all had a similar smell (just whiffing the stick) that is different from my home-rolled. Why might this be? Isnt it the same tobaccos? And why would all my sticks, with different tobaccos smell similar, and the store-bought sticks with different tobaccos smell similar, but my home-rolled vs store bought are different?

Second, I noticed that these cigars didnt squish like mine do. I am using a mold now. The factory cigars held their shape better and the heads dont deform at all while smoking. I dont get this in my cigars unless they are over stuffed with baccy. What gives? Do they just let their cigars sit longer in the mold?

Lastly, I got to really appreciate the flavors of my home-rolled, and generally the flavors are similar and perform favorably compared to the factory sticks. I just had a great home-rolled which was chocolaty and musty, with a hint of vanilla and spice and held on to a 2 inch ash. BUT, the store bought sticks, after lighting and smoking the first few puffs, seem to mellow out. Whereas mine seem to stay somewhat harsh. I dont know how to explain it, but I guess my sticks have more acidity, sometimes a meaty flavor, and often at the end I just get a stronger burnt taste. Most of my sticks are aged a month. Is this simply due to them resting their sticks much longer than mine?

Thanks for all the useful and insightful help you all can offer. I am quite sad that I will be running out of leaf soon and unable to purchase more for at least the time being.

A month is good. Four months are better.

You can get a decent shape and solidity hobbying around. You can get a superb shape and solidity if you learned twenty years ago at the foot of the master, and have been rolling eight days a week, ten hours a day, 250 sticks a day, ever since.

HOWEVER... I get a good burn way more consistently on my comparatively loose ones than I do on the spensive store boughts... at least around here in muggy Dull-Aware. Perfect shape and hard consistency are not so important if the dang thing won't stay lit. I hate re-lighting. Tastes bad.

You can make your head keep its shape better if you double or triple your wrap there. I like to bend the binder round the head couple three times, then I bend the wrapper round several times likewise. That's easy to do on a perfecto... dunno bout a parejo.

 

[Birage]

I can testify to the excellent burn on Webmost's perfectos, smoked one this morning with espresso and it burned beautifully with no relight, and the draw was perfect. I tend to get overzealous when bunching my cigars, wanting to get as much leaf in as possible for a good solid stick, but like he said, you will need the cigar to be cased just right, otherwise the draw and burn will be challenging. Plus, if the blend has too much thick leathery ligero leaf, etc. the burn will empty your lighter!

 

[webmost]

Good thing you reminded me. I gotta send you some Smithdale Maduros.