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Wrapper Flavors

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Jtravis

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Maybe I'm the only one not understanding but I'm just wondering about Wrappers and the influence of their flavors.

Obviously different wrappers change the the flavor to some degree of a cigar but to what extent?
If I roll a cigar with a Dominican Binder and wrap it with PA Oscuro am I going to get the same flavors if I used the Oscuro as the BINDER and WRAPPED it with the Dominican?

I guess what I learned or at least, what I was told at first is that a lot of the flavor comes from the wrapper but if the filler makes up most of a cigar doesn't most of the flavor come from the filler instead?
 

Gdaddy

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An age old argument. The wrapper is the least amount of tobacco used. Not even half a leaf goes to the wrapper so how could it have such a profound effect on the cigar? Don Pepin says the wrapper adds around 30% or so depending on the wrapper used.

I'm sure a 'dark fire cured' wrapper would certainly be more noticeable than most other milder leaves. In general though, I would believe the filler to have the biggest influence on flavor.
 

HIM

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An age old argument. The wrapper is the least amount of tobacco used. Not even half a leaf goes to the wrapper so how could it have such a profound effect on the cigar? Don Pepin says the wrapper adds around 30% or so depending on the wrapper used.

I'm sure a 'dark fire cured' wrapper would certainly be more noticeable than most other milder leaves. In general though, I would believe the filler to have the biggest influence on flavor.

I'd agree with Pepin and the more I get into RYO the more I think he's right. I know I can taste a noticeable difference in a blend just switching the fillers and still using the same wrapper. I have an analogy I use whenever this topic gets brought up....

The wrapper is like a front man in a band. They might get the most attention from everyone but the rest of the band is still part of the overall experience.
 

Jtravis

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An age old argument. The wrapper is the least amount of tobacco used. Not even half a leaf goes to the wrapper so how could it have such a profound effect on the cigar? Don Pepin says the wrapper adds around 30% or so depending on the wrapper used.

I'm sure a 'dark fire cured' wrapper would certainly be more noticeable than most other milder leaves. In general though, I would believe the filler to have the biggest influence on flavor.

Thanks for the input. I don't know why I haven't thought about it until now. It makes sense though.
 

Jtravis

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I'd agree with Pepin and the more I get into RYO the more I think he's right. I know I can taste a noticeable difference in a blend just switching the fillers and still using the same wrapper. I have an analogy I use whenever this topic gets brought up....

The wrapper is like a front man in a band. They might get the most attention from everyone but the rest of the band is still part of the overall experience.


That's a good way to look at it! I know I only sound decent because my band is better than me.
 

buck

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The cigar ring gauge also makes a difference, the thinner the cigar the more the wrapper comes into play. There are lots of varying opinions by the experts.
 

HIM

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This an interesting chart about length/RG and wrapper to filler ratios....

p_3832921_0.jpg
 

Gdaddy

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As third generation Cuban roller Tim Torres said...

"the wrapper is like the dress on a women. It looks nice but it's what's under that dress that's far more important."
 

Cigar

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This is like asking many people same question and you get many answers..I seem to lean-on side wrapper only makes little taste/flavor to the cigar. So if I am correct on this and the binder is done rite.why even use a wrapper for ryo cigars?..they are the most costly of all cigar tobacco to buy. I understand they do add something to the cigar but how much guess is everyones own taste.


Cigar
 

Matty

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There may be something else at play here, a trick of the olfactory senses. Smell has a large impact on flavor being that the tongue can only taste sweet, salty, bitter and sour. Everything else comes from smell. A simple experiment to illustrate this is to eat a slice of pear while smelling a slice of apple. The pear will usually taste of apple. So, on a cigar the wrapper is on the outside, a lot of the sidestream smoke comes from the wrapper and of course the wonderful aroma of the tobacco heating up near the end. This is why I think the wrapper plays such a big part.
 

buck

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This is my thought. I roll for myself and a few close friends so I don't bother with mould or wrapper grade leaf. I just use whatever filler leaf I can find that is good enough to bind and wrap with. I'm happy with the outcome. At some point I would want to really roll nice cigars for my own satisfaction but not until I get construction done right, then I'd buy a mould and wrapper grade leaf. Maduro and any strong tasting wrapper/binder would impart more flavour as some have stated.
 

ArizonaDave

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This is my thought. I roll for myself and a few close friends so I don't bother with mould or wrapper grade leaf. I just use whatever filler leaf I can find that is good enough to bind and wrap with. I'm happy with the outcome. At some point I would want to really roll nice cigars for my own satisfaction but not until I get construction done right, then I'd buy a mould and wrapper grade leaf. Maduro and any strong tasting wrapper/binder would impart more flavour as some have stated.

If a leaf looks like a wrapper, it is a wrapper, in my book. Ive rolled both binder and wrapper in wrapper leaf, giving it a little more wrapper taste, like the H2000, or Aleman. I always used a Piloto Cubano double binder for burn, and sometimes a double wrapper. The Fire Cured does add quite a bit of flavor, more so than other wrappers.
 

HIM

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As third generation Cuban roller Tim Torres said...

"the wrapper is like the dress on a women. It looks nice but it's what's under that dress that's far more important."


I have a lot of trouble taking that guy seriously. He seems like a smug know it all that gives off a sort of con man vibe. You know the type of con man that knows all the industry secrets that only he can share with you because he's so smart and special. Theres no consistent information out there about the guy or whether he was ever even a "Cuban roller." One source says he's a 25th generation others say 12th, everyone has a different story it seems.
Admittedly, I live 90 mies from Cuba and I come across these kinds of people regularly so I may be being biased towards him. Im always willing to humbly eat my own words when I'm wrong but for now Im not convinced. Off topic rant over lol.
 

webmost

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The wrapper comes in direct contact with your mouth and tongue.

Eggs Ackley.

Remember those aluminum glasses years ago? Know why they died? Cause nothing tasted right in them. Not even milk. Did ya ever drink a beer in a tupperware glass? No way. Just go buy a quality beer in a can and another in a bottle and drink them side by side; say Modelo Especial. Bottle, hands down. Fried chicken outweighs its batter far and away; but what makes a good piece of fried chicken? The batter. One ounce of rub transforms a rack of ribs. Crust makes the pie. On and on and on.

Even if you stuck a cigar holder on the end of your cigar so that your mouth never touched the wrapper (there's a hideous thought!) ... still, soon as hot smoke warms the leaf you get an ambrosial odor curling off the wrapper, filling your nose... okay, now I gotta go light a good cigar.

There's no doubt about it. A good wrapper is a slam dunk.

Cost too much? Sometimes I think this forum is populated by cheapskates who's wish is father of their thought. "It's costly therefore is doesn't matter"? That makes no sense at all. Splurge on some nice oily fine grained smooth tasty wrapper. Yum.

Only live once.
 

dondford

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"I have a lot of trouble taking that guy seriously. He seems like a smug know it all that gives off a sort of con man vibe."

I guess I took him a little differently; I saw him de-bunking a lot of the cigar industry's hype and there's a lot of it. It's hard work convincing someone to pay $20.00 for a $5.00 cigar. On the wrapper question; I'm a newbie and read opposing views from people I respect on both sides. I'm guessing it depends on the wrapper, a neutral or mild wrapper would contribute less taste than a strong spicy wrapper. Not sure it would be a fair comparison between added favor between a Conn shade wrapper and a dark fire cured wrapper. I would also guess the strength and favor profile of the filler itself would influence how much impact the wrapper would have on the overall taste of the cigar.

D
 

deluxestogie

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Ah--how the brain forms a model of reality. I agree with everybody.

Although we speak of distinct "senses," a better description of them might be "areas of more focused interest." Our peripheral nervous system, along with all of our sense organs, form a network, or mesh. Touch one piece of spaghetti, and something moves on the other side of the plate.

Numerous, fascinating studies have demonstrated how:
  • taste influences smell
  • smell influences taste
  • color influences smell and taste
  • ambient aromas influence smell and taste
  • ambient temperature influences smell and taste
  • ambient sound influences vision
  • vision influences sound
A wonderful, new book on this wider subject: [url="http://www.amazon.com/Making-Space-Brain-Knows-Things/dp/0674863216]Making Space: How the Brain Knows Where Things Are[/url], by Jennifer Groh at Duke University.

To add to the confusion, the nervous system is not very good at determining how things "are," but very good at detecting how things "have changed." If you smoke a cigarette, then light up a cigar, it's a different cigar than if you've just been sipping some hot cocoa. If you are surrounded by the fragrance of Febreze, stepping out to light up is a world apart from walking out of a kitchen that's cooking cabbage.

Bob
 

BarG

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My extraordinary common sense...heh heh and limited experience rolling cigars tells me that the wrapper and binder influence the taste and aroma of a cigar everybit as much as the filler blend. A very good example would be the Havana 425 which has a very distinct flavor of it's own used as wrapper binder or filler. A puro [Havana 425] is almost overpowering to smoke but as a wrapper adds a unique flavor. I could list other varietys just as unique but the list is quite long.
 

Gdaddy

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Eggs Ackley.

Remember those aluminum glasses years ago? Know why they died? Cause nothing tasted right in them. Not even milk. Did ya ever drink a beer in a tupperware glass? No way. Just go buy a quality beer in a can and another in a bottle and drink them side by side; say Modelo Especial. Bottle, hands down. Fried chicken outweighs its batter far and away; but what makes a good piece of fried chicken? The batter. One ounce of rub transforms a rack of ribs. Crust makes the pie. On and on and on.

Even if you stuck a cigar holder on the end of your cigar so that your mouth never touched the wrapper (there's a hideous thought!) ... still, soon as hot smoke warms the leaf you get an ambrosial odor curling off the wrapper, filling your nose... okay, now I gotta go light a good cigar.

There's no doubt about it. A good wrapper is a slam dunk.

Cost too much? Sometimes I think this forum is populated by cheapskates who's wish is father of their thought. "It's costly therefore is doesn't matter"? That makes no sense at all. Splurge on some nice oily fine grained smooth tasty wrapper. Yum.

Only live once.

I absolutely hate it when I go to a resort or night club and order a fine Scotch or Brandy and they give it to me in a plastic cup. I refuse to do it. There is something to be said about the shape and quality of glass it's served in. The way the glass looks and even the way it feels in my hand contribute to the overall experience.

Beer served in a thick pint glass does nothing for me. It seems so industrial. Why not serve it to me in a bucket or a shovel just to get the job done? I much prefer a finer glass shaped appropriately.

Wine glasses for me are also a pet peeve. The wine glass in most restaurants is fairly thick. I understand they need durability but to me the wine is far better when served in very fine, thin crystal glass. The wine even looks better in this type of glass. We use these at home and anticipate breakage throughout the year. Of course the appropriate shape is hugely important as well but it's also the delicacy of the glass that contributes a huge amount to the experience.
 
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