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Soil rotation

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Ben Brand

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Like me, I believe the majority of the members growing their own tobacco has a space problem.
I'm sure all of us would like to grow rotating ( benificial to the soil) crops, but what to do if you just don't have the space (like me)
I will have to use the same beds for ( hopefully) many years to come.
Now for the question, how do we do it?
Do we just plant, year after year, without trying to get some goodness back into the soil, and if ( like me) we want to put some goodness back, what do we use?? Compost, manure or maybe both? And how much, how long before we plant again, fermmented, unfermented?
Do we turn the soil over ( in my case with a garden fork) or do we adopt the no till theory?
There are lots of other factors that I didn't even mention that can happen in soil that isn't rested/ rotated,, blankshank, nematodes, undesolved fertilisers etc.
If there are some members who has done this, how did you solve these problems, and what are your experiances ( good or bad) on soil that's gets hammered year in and year our.
Ben
 

buck

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Good questions. No answers for you but I am in the same situation. I grow in both buckets and small patch, for buckets it's easy just replace the soil with new soil every season. For patch, I need to prep for this year as well. This would be year two in the same patch.
 

bonehead

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i add all my leafs in the fall to the garden that i pick up with the riding tractor so they are all choped up. i also add some wood ash in winter. when i rototill in the early spring most seem to disapear. rite before i plant i till it again and you would have a hard time finding a leaf in the garden. i know everything seems to grow good and every year i seem to have more worms and the soil seems to get a litle better. i planted hairy vetch as a cover crop before and it seemed to help but usually i get to lazy by fall. i also grow in about sixty or seventy five gallon buckets that i empty in the fall and mix with compost i get free from the town. oriental seems to really like the buckets.
 

deluxestogie

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Around Lancaster, Pennsylvania, the Amish have been planting tobacco in the same fields for generations.

Tobacco, like corn and some other crops, depletes certain nutrients from the soil. Replenishing the nutrients can be done with composted manure, or other supplements.

A totally separate issue is the presence of tobacco pests in the soil. As the tobacco monoculture is extended, year after year, the concentration of pests specific to tobacco will increase. This will happen with most crops. A 3 year rest of the soil will nearly eliminate tobacco-specific pests. A one year rest will noticeable reduce the pests.

So, you'll always have to replace the nutrients that the tobacco removes. A regular soil test can help guide the replacement. For the pest management issue, a combination of resistant strains and pesticides may be needed.

My own rotation, in my limited growing beds, consists of two years of tobacco in a particular bed, then veggies in that bed for at least 1 season. I supplement with composted manure.

Bob
 

Knucklehead

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A cover crop can be helpful in replenishing some of the nutrients. Crimson Clover, etc. will help to fix nitrogen in the soil and can be grown in the patch over the winter, then turned under to provide some green compost to the patch in the spring.

Good cover crop info from the University of Florida: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ag277
 

Cigar

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Speaking of soil tests..is there one you can buy say at local stores that really is accurate or should you send sample to local AGI ext. dept??


Cigar
 

Ben Brand

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My problem is that the beds Iv`e got my tobacco in at the moment, is it, all I have, if I want to rotate I must miss a season of tobacco.

We sell some bags of fermented chicken manure at the place where I work called Promis- Repair imbalances, and give new life to soil, it says on the bag, its sifted broiler litter- chicken poop.

I will work a few of those into my beds. Now the question is when?? I know to get the ph correct in the soil we use lime, and I was always told to try and do it the year before you plant, to get the best benefit out of it, is it the same with the chicken poop, or do I work it in a week or so before the new tobacco goes in? I would think not to long before planting, some of the nutrients well be leeched by rain etc.

Another thing I was thinking and wondering is, how the adding of different fertilizers and manures change the flavors and taste of the tobaccos we plant?
Ben
 

Jitterbugdude

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Around Lancaster, Pennsylvania, the Amish have been planting tobacco in the same fields for generations.

But they do rotate their crops. They plant tobacco in the same field on about a 3 year rotation. They also apply a heavy application of liquid manure every winter/spring.
If you can't rotate your crops it is important to feed the soil as best as you can to noursish beneficial organisms. Feeding commercial fertilizers will kill the benficials in your soil leading to more and more disease problems.

And as Knucks pointed out, a cover crop is very beneficial.
 

Smokin Harley

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when it comes down to adding organic fertilizers , composted is always best . Chicken poop is considered a "hot" manure because of its high content of nitrogen . Horse manure needs composting to rid it of any weed seeds . Composted cow manure is good and usually easily found sold in bags. If you know anyone who raises rabbits , they usually have a good steady amount of manure. Take it off of their hands and use it . Rabbit manure is one of the few that can be used or applied "green" without much composting. Its a slow release that does a garden very well.
Grren organics are a great thing as well, plant them when the season gets too hot for planting tobacco or at the end of the season when you dont have enough time season wise to get a decent crop, turn this in in the spring. The suggested clover is a great one to replenish and fix nitrogen as well as adds structure to the soil. An overtilled soil is just as bad for plantlife as hard pan.
Dont just add lime , make sure you need lime first. The lime you add needs to be "chelated" so it is absorbed or broken down easier. Lime is alkaline . Do a soil test for pH . You may need to add sulphur to lower your soil pH , which makes some nutrients easier for the plant to use. a pH in the wrong direction can stop the plant from using the right nutrient no matter how much of it you put on.
My cousin still plants a traditional row garden and also holds off 1/3 of his space as fallow . He read somewhere that mustard in the fallow land is supposed to somehow rid the soil of certain diseases and nematodes. I havent heard how it has or hasnt worked but maybe its worth a shot.
 

Cigar

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Smokin Harley..how long should wait after adding ' Composted cow manure in bags' before planting?? I know for fact I have "overtilled/worked" my garden for last few years.


 

Smokin Harley

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its composted so it shouldnt burn anything...its best to add it at the end of the season before winter but you can till it in spring as early as you can get into the garden .wait a week or so .
Last year my wonderful mother in law (RIP) bought us $100 worth of garden additives . I bought 4 bales of peat, 8 bags of composted manure and mushroom compost. I also added the 12 wheelbarrow loads of sand that we had under our chickens when we had them. I deep (8")tilled that all into the soil about Easter since it was a dry spring and was planting my first crops in late May.
 

Smokin Harley

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what most people dont realize it that a plants roots technically dont grow in the soil , it grows between the soil particles. the more you till or work a soil the more it breaks down the soils structure into a fine powder. generally soil needs to be light and fluffy (lots of space-loamy, peat,perlite,vermiculite,sand) rather than heavy and dense like rock,hard pan or clay.
Do a ball test. Take a handful of soil and squeeze it into a firm ball about tennis ball size in your hand . Is it sticky ,shiny and just mushes ? too much clay. How easily can you take two fingers and break that ball? slight pressure and it falls apart,crumbles to tiny particles - too sandy . a light squeeze and it for the most part holds a shape but still comes apart- about right.
 

Cigar

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Peat/Manure/Sand how did you quess my plans for garden this year [sorry abt mother in law] but with my limestone/clay soil here thats best advice have read so-far.

Ciagr
 

Smokin Harley

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I live in Will county Illinois which for the most part the soil here is a little heavy to the clay side. we get rains that soak the ground fast and it just holds water forever(think root rot) I always need to add anything to break up the water retention. peat adds a looseness without giving up water holding and drainage at the same time. The sand I had and needed to get rid of so with the chicken manure in it ,it was a plus. It helps to break up the clayey level that after it gets wet almost acts like a barrier .
Start composting your kitchen scraps - Coffee grounds, banana peels, egg shells ,leaves, old lettuce,shredded newspaper,or cardboard. ANYTHING organic you might normally throw away put into a compost pile or like I have a compost tumbler. add scraps to it and give it a turn or two a day. in as quick as 3 weeks you have nearly free black gold compost .sift it through a 1/2 inch hardware cloth and add to your soil as a side dressing.
 

Chicken

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Souping up my area is a never ending job..but I'm fortunate enough to have the perfect occupation for this..I'm always in cow fields.and I carry 4 buckets.and 4 nylon bags which holds 50lbs. Of material I load up cow poop.rotted feed material..black rich soil.sawdust. rotted swamp material Georgia clay..and anything else that will help fortify the soil..
.
On top of that I'm adding lime and k-mag..along with granular fertilizer and regular tilling.

I believe I could bury a dead animal in my spot and it would come back to life
 

Jitterbugdude

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If it is composted you can add it right away. It is the uncomposted(raw) stuff that might burn your plants. Overtilling isn't too bad a problem if you wait a week after tilling to plant. Tilling greatly reduces the oxygen content of the soil, this is why most farmers plow their fields. The plow flips the soil allowing the nutrients that migrated deep into the soil during the growing season to be brought back to the top.
 
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