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What's been your most disappointing and/or most surprising tobacco grown so far?

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Jitterbugdude

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This past growing season I grew 15 varieties of tobacco. I am totally astounded by two of them. Black Sea Samsum-Maden (BSS-M) and White Flower. The BSS-M is a Turkish variety. It has such a good flavor to it that I smoke it everyday (straight) in my pipe. The other variety that surprised me was White flower. This was supposed to have a very mild hint of dried fruit when smoked. Indeed, field ripened leaves had just such a taste but after coming out of the kiln I was very disappointed. However, just recently I tried it again and it is fantastic. That hint of fruit is there again!
Randy B
 

FmGrowit

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Well, that's kind of wild...

Before I even opened the thread, I thought of the answer and to my surprise, White Flower was in your post. I agree with your thoughts on this variety. I've never tried the BBS-M, but my biggest disappointment was Samsun 15. Not that it's a offensive, but it is so pungent with perfume that I can't imagine it being used in a blend at even 1%. A single shred of that stuff burning would overwhelm any tobacco it's mixed with.
 

deluxestogie

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My Samsun and Bafra (both from New Hope Seed) had no trace of perfume at any stalk position, with the Bafra being somewhat milder than the Samsun.

Bahia was not what I expected. I had in mind the black, rough, earthy, and distinctively pungent leaf that was, once upon a time, used to manufacture Suerdiek Brazilian cigars. It's what gives any "Brazil" cigar its uniqueness. I guess I handled mine with far too much TLC. Although the tips did kiln to a black, raisin-sweet leaf, it tasted too refined. The bulk of the leaf kilned to a soft, milk-chocolate brown, smooth on the tongue and mild-to-medium in strength. The yield is a little below average, and the plant stalk is a bit floppy--well, overly flexible.

Now, I'm not saying the Bahia was bad. It was good. But it was not what I had hoped for. I suspect that it needs a more crude and aggressive method of fermentation.

As for surprises, my FL Sumatra wins for me. Just about any variety will produce some wrapper-grade leaf. With the FL Sumatra, damn near every leaf was wrapper grade--about 90% above the mud lugs. Bugs hated it. No fleabeetle pinholes, no aphids, no nothin'. (They were preoccupied with a few of the other varieties.) The taste and aroma are good, and the dark EMS color tends to be flawlessly uniform. It's not very exciting as filler, and as wrapper it gives you a stick similar to the average $4 cigar--not great, but solidly good.

Bob
 

deluxestogie

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Randy,
I've tried the White Flower that you sent, and the Samsun-Maden.

The White Flower seed seems to have been collected in 1936 at Santa Rosa, Cuzco, Peru, two days after the USDA agent--Stadleman--collected seed from Machu Picchu (which I'll be growing this year). GRIN says that White Flower (PI 116162) is an Oriental. I believe that's wrong. I smoked it straight in my pipe, and the nicotine knocked me on my butt. I didn't get any fruit. I think it would make a good blending tobacco.

I've never looked at Samsun-Maden leaf before. While Samsun (and Bafra) is heart-shaped and has a free stem, the Samsun-Maden looks like a Basma type leaf, a larger version of Izmir--long and no free stem. I'm smoking a small cigar made entirely of Samsun-Maden. The kilned leaf is a medium-dark brown. It is smooth, low in nicotine, and exhibits no floral aroma. There is a subdued earthy taste. It's definitely smoother and milder than my Samsun, though a touch heartier than my Bafra. I think it would blend beautifully with the acid edge of flue-cured Virginia.

Bob
 

Jitterbugdude

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I am confused! I looked at the GRIN ascension for "White Flower. It is definitely not an Oriental. I would say it's a Burly. I seem to recall that Don originally said these seeds came from an old farmer. They had no name to them but had that dried fruit flavor to them. Don decided to call them "White Flower"... a name he apparently pulled out of his yet to be designed FTT hat. Anyways.... Don.. does any of this jog your memory.

More confusion, Bob.. Originally when the White Flower came out of the kiln I did not like it. It had no flavor and the nicotine also knocked me on my ass. But, 4 months later I tried it and it was a nice smooth smoke without the nicotine kick, and this is from the same stuff I sent you.... the Canik though.. still has way too much nicotine for me!
 

FmGrowit

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Geez...I hate to do it, but I can only add to the confusion.

I always was under the impression White flower was the same as Orinoco Blanco and I can't give you any good reason why I thought that. I guess the really odd thing is White flower isn't in the collection, but I have about 2000 seeds in a little jar labeled "Wht Flwr". I know I grew it three years ago and remember the dried apple flavor of the stalk cured leaf, but I don't remember if it's something I bought or if it was among the miscellaneous stuff I got from the farm.

This is going to bug the crap out of me until I figure it out, but I highly doubt it is the same White Flower listed in the GRIN.
 

FmGrowit

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OK, I found my plot map from '09 and it appears the White Flower got it's name because it has white flowers. Randy, did your White flower have white flowers?

My notes say "unknown 42 plants (roughly) TN 90(?) Orinoco Blanco(?) white flower". The notes were added throughout the course of the growing season and in an attempt to identify the "unknown". The note of the flower color was the last entry. I do recall the plant was medium sized with a Burley or Flue Cure shaped leaf. I highly doubt it is an Oriental. I grew Orinoco Blanco the same year from seedman seeds and the two plants were different. The identity of the variety can be narrowed down a little bit by searching the GRIN for white flowers, but it's true identity may have been lost to history.
 

deluxestogie

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I love these mysteries. Of course, GRIN labels Perique as "Oriental." And even though we disagree as to which Perique is Perique, we all agree that it's not Oriental.

Randy, I actually thought the "White Flower" was stronger than the Canik, of which I smoked a bowlful this morning. No fruit there either. This really is fun.

Don, the "1 pound" of Indian Dark Air arrived. Intense stuff. A bowl of it is smoking me as I write this. I think it will make a wonderful blender. There is an alkaline earthiness to it, which should balance well with flue-cured. It actually tastes pretty good, though blending would broaden the aroma. Thank you.

Bob
 

indianjoe

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A surprising variety that I recently added to my smokes is Silk Leaf. I primed and stalked without kiln, hung since last August. Tastes excellent with no after taste and no noticable difference between the primed and stalked. The leaf is smaller than havana, which also tastes great, and cured to a darker brown. Anyone else have any observations on silk leaf?
 

johnlee1933

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A surprising variety that I recently added to my smokes is Silk Leaf. I primed and stalked without kiln, hung since last August. Tastes excellent with no after taste and no noticable difference between the primed and stalked. The leaf is smaller than havana, which also tastes great, and cured to a darker brown. Anyone else have any observations on silk leaf?

Hey Joe, I was trying to decide whether or not to grow any silk leaf. Do you think it would make a good blender in a mild cigar?

JOhn
 

indianjoe

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John,
it should be a good blender, it has good nicotine content and tobacco flavor. Remember that Jitter said he did not like it in a pipe. It colors good and was no problems in getting it to cure with just hanging by priming or stalk. I was so impressed that it will be another variety that I get in the ground this year.
 

johnlee1933

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John,
it should be a good blender, it has good nicotine content and tobacco flavor. Remember that Jitter said he did not like it in a pipe. It colors good and was no problems in getting it to cure with just hanging by priming or stalk. I was so impressed that it will be another variety that I get in the ground this year.

Thanks, If I have space I think I'll try a couple.
 

Boboro

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I grew it last year but ant smoked it yet. Grew good cured good.Ill smoke some this weekend to see how much to plant.
 

Boboro

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It didn't have much taste. The nicitine was about the same as Virg. gold. It has been ageing for 7 mounts and has not been in the kiln so it needs more time to tell much about it.
 

CoralReefs

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Well, that's kind of wild...

Before I even opened the thread, I thought of the answer and to my surprise, White Flower was in your post. I agree with your thoughts on this variety. I've never tried the BBS-M, but my biggest disappointment was Samsun 15. Not that it's a offensive, but it is so pungent with perfume that I can't imagine it being used in a blend at even 1%. A single shred of that stuff burning would overwhelm any tobacco it's mixed with.

Anyone know where to get "White Flower"? I checked all of the places I usually buy my seeds from, they do not list a "White Flower". Since I an not a commercial farmer, I do not think I can request accessions from ARS-GRIN (correct me if I am wrong).

[Edit: Ohhhh.... sorry if I just resurrected an old thread. I am a few days past the socially acceptable deadline of 30 days since last post :p]
 
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