Shundahai
Well-Known Member
That's mighty generous of you, Thanks!
"Green River Burley" and "Lonnie's Havana"
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That's mighty generous of you, Thanks!
Shundahai
Well-Known Member
So it's an Unidentified-But-Probably-Havana 142 baccy. From what I have read folks seem to like it, that's good enough for me.
What part of the "left coast" are you from?
What part of the "left coast" are you from?
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
For your intended usage and limited number of plants, I might suggest considering Bolivian Crillo Black. It cures pretty dark, I get a light coffee note from it. Very nice dual purpose plant that is a very heavy producer. Mine went better than 8' tall last year.
More accurate would be "Unidentified-but-probably-some-Havana-type." If you do grow it, and save the seed, call it "Lonnie's Havana."
Bob
I haven't grow Havana 142 (or Lonnie's Havana) but I was thinking
You perhaps like to take a look one this?
http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc5997/m1/51/
rustycase
Well-Known Member
Yah, what Bob said...
Back when, the good ole boys didn't seem to be quite so concerned about the fine points of strains, but were happy to exchange seeds that grew particularly well for them.
I've got some labelled as Conrads Huge Leaf. (They are now old, and no telling if I can even germinate them. But I'm studying on that...)
All well and good, among friends !
There are also vendors who put together blends... Cowboy Killer, for example, which was/is a blend of strains.
It would be a bad thing, to make an attempt at identification, and label any subsequent seed with a non-scientific guess.
Integrity... Purity... How are you going to judge it ?
I've bagged concurrent strains properly, early in the season, then discovered the cluster of flowers/pods totally filling a well made home-sewn tuille bag, with bees visiting the outside of the bag in significant numbers... they probably were not successful in gathering pollen, yet some of what they carried probably dropped off onto the plant. How could I have known if there was any compromise ?
How could grin know?
It remains best practice to obtain seed from the best source possible if you are a purist.
Settin' out on the porch, in the evening, with a stogie ??? ...well, I do think climate, soil conditions, and watering will make enough difference in a strain to have many discussions.
Best
rc
Back when, the good ole boys didn't seem to be quite so concerned about the fine points of strains, but were happy to exchange seeds that grew particularly well for them.
I've got some labelled as Conrads Huge Leaf. (They are now old, and no telling if I can even germinate them. But I'm studying on that...)
All well and good, among friends !
There are also vendors who put together blends... Cowboy Killer, for example, which was/is a blend of strains.
It would be a bad thing, to make an attempt at identification, and label any subsequent seed with a non-scientific guess.
Integrity... Purity... How are you going to judge it ?
I've bagged concurrent strains properly, early in the season, then discovered the cluster of flowers/pods totally filling a well made home-sewn tuille bag, with bees visiting the outside of the bag in significant numbers... they probably were not successful in gathering pollen, yet some of what they carried probably dropped off onto the plant. How could I have known if there was any compromise ?
How could grin know?
It remains best practice to obtain seed from the best source possible if you are a purist.
Settin' out on the porch, in the evening, with a stogie ??? ...well, I do think climate, soil conditions, and watering will make enough difference in a strain to have many discussions.
Best
rc
Back years ago when I first joined HTGT , I started selling whole leaf tobacco , Lonnie asked me why the Havana strain he had would fall or lean over . I first thought it was weather related or a soil issue .
He sent me some of his Havana seeds for me to grow and see if I could figure out why the plants would crook over .
I always referred to his strain as "Lonnie's Havana" . I gave out seed and plants from his strain and told each person it was Lonnie's Havana .
Lonnie thought it was 142 , to keep my Havana strains separate I named it " Lonnie's Havana "
Like said it was a good leaf to mix in cigarettes . John Lee acquired several pounds of what I had grown and said it was his favorite leaf to use in his cigars .
I know I still have some of it around some where .
When I grew a good quarter acre of it , the plants would crook over . Not all of them but about every one did have some crook to them . I have picture of the Havana at the outside of the rows , but the crooks was similar all through the patch . My other tobacco planted in rows beside the Havana was straight with no crooks at all .
First picture is Green Briar Burley , the second is Lonnie's Havana .
He sent me some of his Havana seeds for me to grow and see if I could figure out why the plants would crook over .
I always referred to his strain as "Lonnie's Havana" . I gave out seed and plants from his strain and told each person it was Lonnie's Havana .
Lonnie thought it was 142 , to keep my Havana strains separate I named it " Lonnie's Havana "
Like said it was a good leaf to mix in cigarettes . John Lee acquired several pounds of what I had grown and said it was his favorite leaf to use in his cigars .
I know I still have some of it around some where .
When I grew a good quarter acre of it , the plants would crook over . Not all of them but about every one did have some crook to them . I have picture of the Havana at the outside of the rows , but the crooks was similar all through the patch . My other tobacco planted in rows beside the Havana was straight with no crooks at all .
First picture is Green Briar Burley , the second is Lonnie's Havana .
Shundahai
Well-Known Member
For myself and for personal use, I'm not overly concerned with a precise identification. It can be Billy Bob's Really Good Chit Baccy that's been in his family for 5 generations and it would be fine with me if it does what I want it to do. But I hear what you are saying about the value of precise identification and trusted sources of seed.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least that climate, soils, and cultural practices could strongly effect the quality and character of a given strain of tobacco. I live in one of the finest wine grape growing regions in the world, and the wines from identical varieties can be quite different depending upon the precise location they are grown. I have a good friend who is a grape grower, and on his primary property there is an old vineyard apart from his main plantings. these are old Cabernet vines planted about 70 years ago, no irrigation and the 20 or so acres they are on have a very different soil than is typically found in the region. This little patch isn't under contract, rather he lets 3 or 4 different wineries fight each other every year and he'll sell the grapes to the highest bidder. He typically gets about 3X more per ton for those grapes than the prevailing market value.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least that climate, soils, and cultural practices could strongly effect the quality and character of a given strain of tobacco. I live in one of the finest wine grape growing regions in the world, and the wines from identical varieties can be quite different depending upon the precise location they are grown. I have a good friend who is a grape grower, and on his primary property there is an old vineyard apart from his main plantings. these are old Cabernet vines planted about 70 years ago, no irrigation and the 20 or so acres they are on have a very different soil than is typically found in the region. This little patch isn't under contract, rather he lets 3 or 4 different wineries fight each other every year and he'll sell the grapes to the highest bidder. He typically gets about 3X more per ton for those grapes than the prevailing market value.
Yah, what Bob said...
Back when, the good ole boys didn't seem to be quite so concerned about the fine points of strains, but were happy to exchange seeds that grew particularly well for them.
I've got some labelled as Conrads Huge Leaf. (They are now old, and no telling if I can even germinate them. But I'm studying on that...)
All well and good, among friends !
There are also vendors who put together blends... Cowboy Killer, for example, which was/is a blend of strains.
It would be a bad thing, to make an attempt at identification, and label any subsequent seed with a non-scientific guess.
Integrity... Purity... How are you going to judge it ?
I've bagged concurrent strains properly, early in the season, then discovered the cluster of flowers/pods totally filling a well made home-sewn tuille bag, with bees visiting the outside of the bag in significant numbers... they probably were not successful in gathering pollen, yet some of what they carried probably dropped off onto the plant. How could I have known if there was any compromise ?
How could grin know?
It remains best practice to obtain seed from the best source possible if you are a purist.
Settin' out on the porch, in the evening, with a stogie ??? ...well, I do think climate, soil conditions, and watering will make enough difference in a strain to have many discussions.
Best
rc
Shundahai
Well-Known Member
Some interesting baccy history. It appears that Lonnie's Havana has some genetic quirk that makes it crookedy? Has anyone done a side by side grow/cure/smoke comparison with known Havana 142? That would be interesting...
rustycase
Well-Known Member
Good to see Larry in the fracas! lol
He makes a lotta leaves, every year!
Not-with-standing, I have grown Havana 142 and the Green Brior... nice small lots of each... totally different.
I would need to read through a bunch of the DS threads for an appropriate description, but the Green Brior was an obvious burley type, the Havana 142 initially grew as a tight, praying hands columnar form until it got to about 3 feet tall. The Havana 142 definitely had the rich cigar note to it, in use.
The Green Brior was, well, burley.
I did not seem to have leaning, or falling problem. But I only grew a few plants...
Best
rc
Hvile,
Welcome to the forum. Try Northwood Seeds. One Sucker is listed under cigar / pipe. They ship internationally.
http://northwoodseeds.com/Seed List2.htm
Bob
Welcome to the forum. Try Northwood Seeds. One Sucker is listed under cigar / pipe. They ship internationally.
http://northwoodseeds.com/Seed List2.htm
Bob
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