"Green River Burley" and "Lonnie's Havana"

[Shundahai]

Reading through the forum over the last couple of days I have come across reference to the two tobaccos mentioned in the title. The first, "Green River Burley" was mentioned by Don as a very high nicotine content...7% give or take...tobacco. Searching all over the internet, I cannot find a listing anywhere for "Green River Burley". Is it a common burley that just happens to be grown near some Green River, or is it an actual named variety?

The second, "Lonnie's Havana" appears to be an unintentional cross of Havana and something else. It looks quite leafy and very productive, which is why it caught my eye. I am considering other varieties for next year...my Shirey is growing well and I am learning alot as the season progresses, but it appears to me to be a rather sparse yielder. Since I am space limited, I'd like to find a quality tobacco that is also a heavy producer with a decent nic kick as well. Are seeds for these two tobaccos available anywhere?

 

[DGBAMA]

I have Lonnie's Havanah, I can share some seed over the winter for next year, I don't get much mailing done in the summer.

What part of NorCal are you from? I grew up there.

 

[Shundahai]

Thanks for the offer, and of course I am in no hurry....next season is a ways off.

I live in Sonoma County, but I'm from the Idaho/Nevada borderlands

What can you tell me about Lonnie's Havanah?

 

[DGBAMA]

Mild by cigar standard. Great grower, fast maturing. Makes a good wrapper leaf too. One of my favorite,

 

[FmGrowit]

If I ever called Green River a burley, I certainly misspoke. Green River One Sucker is a Dark Air Cured type.

 

[FmGrowit]

An excerpt from VOLATILE CONSTITUENTS OF PERIQUE TOBACCO
written by; Electronic Journal of Environmental, Agricultural and Food Chemistry, 4(2), 2005. March - April Issue

IINTRODUCTION:

Perique tobacco is a minor tobacco type produced by subjecting the leaf of a Red Burley (USDA Type 72) to a partial air-curing followed by a high pressure anaerobic fermentation process. Genuine Perique grows successfully only in a small, wedge shaped piece of land west of New Orleans called St. James' Parish. Within St. James' Parish, the best, and only current location the Red Burley for Perique is grown is a relatively tiny place called Grande Point Ridge, near Paulina, LA. on a dark alluvial soil.

Growers have tried sowing the Red Burley seed in places all over the world with similar climate and soil conditions without any significant success other than Kentucky Green River Burley, which can be grown in larger crops, and is processed to make a “faux” (fake) Perique.

I quoted an article.

 

[ProfessorPangloss]

I quoted an article.

The Green River flows by Mammoth Cave in the central region of Kentucky. There is fertile farmland all along it (excluding where coal strip mining has occurred) and they grow a decent amount of tobacco out there. Not sure why Perique producers choose that leaf.

 

[FmGrowit]

I'm not at all sure they actually did.

 

[ProfessorPangloss]

Well, I mean "choose" in the present tense. Why would they ship KY burley to Louisiana? Obviously they need the leaf for Perique, but why not grow more in LA, with the added benefit of calling it the real thing?

 

[FmGrowit]

I guess is the article was written by someone with less than a fluent understand of how the whole thing works. Red Burley was taken to Louisiana and grown as or crossed with other types or just morphed into Perique. Tobacco grown for making Perique is grown in Louisiana.

 

[Shundahai]

If I ever called Green River a burley, I certainly misspoke. Green River One Sucker is a Dark Air Cured type.

My bad. You are correct, it is "Green River One sucker".


http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/2877-Did-I-just-lose-a-sale?p=47694&viewfull=1#post47694

 

[deluxestogie]

https://books.google.com/books?id=c...tobacco region map "green river" UDSA&f=false

Note the USDA designated "Green River" region (zone 36, in western KY).

Bob

 

[Shundahai]

Note the USDA designated "Green River" region (zone 36, in western KY).

Bob

So it isn't an actual named variety, but rather One Sucker grown in the Green River region?

 

[deluxestogie]

There are many "One Sucker" named varieties. [http://nicotianaprojectnet.ipage.com/dark.htm (this site no longer sells seed)] They are generally considered to be dark-air-cured varieties. The USDA, over the past century, has assigned "class" and "type" to whatever was commonly grown in specific regions--to simplify marketing. So "Green River" is not a specific, named (genetically uniquely identifiable) variety. It's a marketing category.

Most dark-air varieties tend to grow thick, sticky leaves (with lots of trichomes) that cure to a dark, strong tobacco.

The name, "One Sucker," was a widely used marketing ploy for selling tobacco seed. The concept is that a grower might hope to lower labor costs (for suckering) by buying that seed, but is clearly not descriptive of the number of suckers you can expect. You can think of it in the same vein as naming a flue-cure variety "bright" or "gold" something or other, or including several odd consonants after the name of a sports car (e.g. "CRX" or "ZX").

Bob

 

[Shundahai]

ok, that makes sense to me. Thanks Bob.

There are many "One Sucker" named varieties. [http://nicotianaprojectnet.ipage.com/dark.htm (this site no longer sells seed)] They are generally considered to be dark-air-cured varieties. The USDA, over the past century, has assigned "class" and "type" to whatever was commonly grown in specific regions--to simplify marketing. So "Green River" is not a specific, named (genetically uniquely identifiable) variety. It's a marketing category.

Most dark-air varieties tend to grow thick, sticky leaves (with lots of trichomes) that cure to a dark, strong tobacco.

The name, "One Sucker," was a widely used marketing ploy for selling tobacco seed. The concept is that a grower might hope to lower labor costs (for suckering) by buying that seed, but is clearly not descriptive of the number of suckers you can expect. You can think of it in the same vein as naming a flue-cure variety "bright" or "gold" something or other, or including several odd consonants after the name of a sports car (e.g. "CRX" or "ZX").

Bob

 

[Knucklehead]

Since I am space limited, I'd like to find a quality tobacco that is also a heavy producer with a decent nic kick as well. Are seeds for these two tobaccos available anywhere?

Are you growing for cigars, cigarettes, snuss, or other?

 

[Shundahai]

Are you growing for cigars, cigarettes, snuss, or other?

Primarily cigar, with some for pipe.

 

[Knucklehead]

Primarily cigar, with some for pipe.

I will also have some seed for you this fall.

 

[rustycase]

For the OP...

I had gotten seed from Lonnie, back when... He grew Havana 142, and claimed it as a preference if he were to make a standalone choice.

I've also gotten seed from a number of the other good ole boys in Tennessee, who sent me Lonnie's Havana.
I never did a side by side comparison test, growing, or burning... with them, or the Havana 608, or Havana 2000.

Still, I would suspect Lonnie's Havana is same as Havana 142.

Don or JBD might have insight into that time period.

Good luck
rc

 

[Jitterbugdude]

If I remember correctly (or should I say IIRC.. ) Lonnie had some seed that he couldn't remember what is was but thought it was Havana 142. I've grown Havana 142 but not Lonnie's so I can't compare.