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I am getting there....not pretty, but great smoking!

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SemperReformanda

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Well, I just want to thank everyone who had responded to my previous posts and threads; it was quite helpful. Though I am still in the infancy stage, I am quite pleased with my results thus far. One thing I have come to realize is that the wrappers will never be the quality of those that big companies get. Most all the wrappers I have gotten thus far have prominent veins which ultimately, cause an imperfection of sorts in the final product; but thats fine by me. The cigars I have thus rolled, probably 40 or so, smoke ideally. Lots of billowy smoke, good taste, good burn (maybe one fixer upper with the torch) and long ashes. I have a wine cooler humidor full of name brand smokes. I have been inclined to smoke the cigars I have rolled over them. I'm a happy camper. I have decided to call them: SemperReformanda. My rolling and blends will 'always be reforming'! :)
 

Raodwarior

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For the most part you are getting the same wrapper, but what you will find is as you get better casing the wrapper the results will improve dramatically. When cased correctly most of the veins will tend to disappear, although Maduro can be a bit tougher. I use the same wrappers from WLT that you have and sell them commercially in my store and roll them for events as well. It just takes time and practice you will get there.
 

SemperReformanda

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I assume you mean how workable the wrapper is by 'casing'? I have tried to understand this concept. The way I understand it is how hydrated the leaf is; for example, the filler should be just under crunchy so you can work with it; the binder a higher case and then the wrapper a higher case yet. Correct? If I am correct, I have seen no way in getting the veins out to the degree that they are almost invisible. I have had a few that were pretty neat. I have been rolling the wrapper leaf out with a rolling pin; that has helped a tad. But comparing it to some of the store bought stuff, there is no match, generally. Suggestions?
 

waikikigun

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I've taken to the "picking the hidden veins out as I roll" thing that you see some of the old-timer Cuban dudes doing. It's a whole new level of difficulty to keep the wrapper tight when you're tearing bits of it out as you go, but it's a new thing to learn, so that's cool.

Pics of my stix:

http://blisscigar.co/
 

Knucklehead

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'"picking the hidden veins out as I roll"

How do you do that?

You first have to become an old timer Cuban dude. :)

My failing eyesight could be deceiving me, but in the bottom right photo the bottom cigar appears to have been rolled with the vein side (underside of leaf) to the outside. Is this at all possible for some of them? Also the wrapper looks like it may have been a little dry for rolling. It will stretch better if hydrated more. Laying the wrapper on more smoothly will come with practice.

Having said that, they look fine to me. People rarely see mine so I don't roll to please others. Mine usually look like dog droppings but smoke great.
 

waikikigun

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If you watch a few hundred rolling vids on youtube, you'll see it often. ;)

Basically you develop an understanding of what's going on with the wrapper leaf and you notice that many of the veins are getting wrapped UNDER more leaf further up the stick as you roll. You can see that you're about to roll a vein under some leaf. So you stop and with your finger nails you pick the vein end closest to the foot and pull it out like you're undoing a zipper, towards the head. Then you tuck the veinless edges under there real tight, hold them in place until you've rolled them under, and keep going. You can remove about 50% of your veins this way, more if you're lucky.
 

webmost

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I assume you mean how workable the wrapper is by 'casing'? I have tried to understand this concept. The way I understand it is how hydrated the leaf is; for example, the filler should be just under crunchy so you can work with it; the binder a higher case and then the wrapper a higher case yet. Correct?

<rant>
I am thoroughly tired of case in this case. A case is a tort, a box, a diagnosed disease, an instance, a window frame even. What is case not? It's not damp. We have damp for that. Look it up. I have zero objection to jargon when it makes a useful distinction. Port and starboard, for instance, make a crucial distinction between what's your right and left and what's the vessel's right and left. Vessels could get stranded on reefs if sailors did not make this distinction habitual. Case in this case distinguishes between damp and what? Nothing. Other than breaking in newbies to this forum by putting them in their place, what essential function is served by using case instead of damp? I have no problem using sotweed or uppowoc or kinikinik or cohoba for fun. What's the fun in stumping newbs with case?

Which of these two wrappers is ready to use:

"My wrapper is damp."
"My wrapper is in high case."

Use moist if you must; but not case.
This is my case against case, just in case anyone cares.
</rant>

I have seen no way in getting the veins out to the degree that they are almost invisible. I have had a few that were pretty neat. I have been rolling the wrapper leaf out with a rolling pin; that has helped a tad. But comparing it to some of the store bought stuff, there is no match, generally. Suggestions?

Use Habano 2000. Get your wrapper plenty damp. Stretch a half leaf out completely, paying careful attention to the outside edge. A smooth surface such as stone or metal helps. I use an oiled sanded pine one by twelve. Cut out the inner portion so that you only have a two and a half inch crescent from the outer edge. Trim just the slenderest strip off the outer edge to make your visible edge sharp. Wrap from the tip of the leaf toward the base. You can probably get the job done using half or two thirds of your strip's length. You don't need to overlap much. That's as veinless as you're going to get.

I have had no success rolling veins flat with a pin, as it seems to weaken the leaf where it was rolled.

As your moist wrapper leaf dries, it shrinks onto your cigar, making an even smoother surface.
 

Knucklehead

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Case in this case distinguishes between damp and what? Nothing. what essential function is served by using case instead of damp?

Filler in low damp
Binder in medium damp
Wrapper in high damp

Cigarette shred for stuffing should be in medium low damp.

Dry,dry leaf is out of damp.

I think I have the hang of it now. Wasn't as bad as I thought.
 

DGBAMA

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One possible is "inside out" wrapper, like already suggested.

Another is that wrapper is like painting a "clear coat" preparation is key, it shows everything underneath. The another the binder, the better the wrapper.. Which is why the commercial guys use molds between binding and wrapping.
 

deluxestogie

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Apparently this forum software does not recognize <rant> tags.

I agree with the drift of Webmost's rolling suggestions. If you mist your wrapper and binder the night before, and put them into a plastic bag, they will be stretchy and ready to go in the morning. I usually utilize a full width binder, in order to compress a solid stick. Trim the outer edge of the wrapper, to get rid of the frilly margin, then cut away the stem margin of the leaf in a gentle crescent.

If you can get a solid stick with the binder (or even two binders laid on top of one another before rolling), then wrapping with a neatly trimmed wrapper, with careful stretch, is often quick and easy.

Most important: cigar rolling is a sensory/motor skill that improves with practice. Even if you know all the tricks, you still have to program the motions, and that takes practice. You are off to a good start. Aim for a solid stick with a proper draw. Beauty will come with time.

About "case." If you mist water on a dry leaf, you have, initially, a damp leaf that is not in case. Coming into case requires a finite amount of time. (CT Shade, Besuki and Ecuador Sumatra come into case almost immediately. CT Broadleaf and other thicker wrappers/binders sometimes require hours to come into case.) As the moisture is absorbed by the lamina and the veins, the damp leaf comes into case. Case is a statement of the hydration status of the leaf, rather than whether or not the surface is damp. A damp leaf may or may not be stretchy, while a leaf that is in high case is stretchy. A leaf in high case may have a dry surface.

In a field of discussion that is littered with Spanish terms, commercial categories, biochemical descriptions, marketeering bull and governmental classifications, understanding the use the word "case" should come as only a minor challenge to the interested novice.

Bob
 

kullas

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While we are on the subject of wrappers. Does a cigar have to have a wrapper? What is the purpose of it but to make it look nice?
 

webmost

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If you watch a few hundred rolling vids on youtube, you'll see it often. ;)

Basically you develop an understanding of what's going on with the wrapper leaf and you notice that many of the veins are getting wrapped UNDER more leaf further up the stick as you roll. You can see that you're about to roll a vein under some leaf. So you stop and with your finger nails you pick the vein end closest to the foot and pull it out like you're undoing a zipper, towards the head. Then you tuck the veinless edges under there real tight, hold them in place until you've rolled them under, and keep going. You can remove about 50% of your veins this way, more if you're lucky.

Wow. This I'd like to see.
You must have some very deft fingernails.
 

Knucklehead

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While we are on the subject of wrappers. Does a cigar have to have a wrapper? What is the purpose of it but to make it look nice?

Not necessarily. I will sometimes smoke a cigar immediately after putting on the binder (or wrapper with no binder - I'm not sure of the semantics) The binder will need to be pretty much wrapper quality and not have holes in it so it will draw without sucking air.

webmost was right about one thing. I can't google any keywords that pull up a description of case. Tobacco Case pulls up a storage thingy for pipe tobacco. Measuring Tobacco Moisture pulls up hits for moisture meter sellers. Tobacco Dryness pulls up farming and harvest info. I don't know where the term originated. I picked it up from Don a few years ago. I don't really care what term is used as long as every one uses the same terminology. It gets confusing otherwise. Besides, if we can't confuse the newbies with terminology, we'll be left with giving them wedgies or making them fetch the tobacco stretcher.
 
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