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Higher Carcinogen in Seco Leaves?

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Jason

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I heard from a friend who sells cigars that seco leaves have greater carcinogen levels. My questions are..

1. Is it true?
2. What is the effect of higher carcinogens?
3. Do strains of tobacco have higher carcinogens than other tobaccos?

If you have any thoughts, let's hear them.

Thanks,

Jason
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I'd love to know if differential testing had been done on tobaccos. My honest scepticism stems from, not knowing whether these studies have been done, previously being an alternative health practitioner, is that when unfounded theories are discussed enough, people tend to take them as fact. Also, when there is supporting evidence, the implications are inflated.

For example, people think anti-perisperant causes Alzheimer's disease because a French study showed high concentrations of aluminum in drinking water correlated with the incidence of Alzheimer's in a certain geographical area which was higher than the expected 1.99% at 2.14%, without evidence for dose relative response.

So, to relate it. Maybe Seco has less of something shown to cause cancer. The scale of how much that makes an actual impact is yet to be determined. Have they studied populations where people only smoke Seco vs where they only smoke Ligero? Is it an increase in cancer likelihood from 2% to 10% if you smoke Ligero, or is it from 2% to 2.14%? (I just threw the 2% in for sake of analogy. I don't know what the number is)

Grain of salt my friend.
 

Jitterbugdude

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The link between cancer and tobacco is very weak, mainly due to most of the studies being poorly conducted. With that said, just because something is a carcinogen doesn't mean you will get cancer from it. Radiation is a known carcinogen yet in very small doses it increases health and more importantly, lifespan.

One of the major carcinogens that industry is focused on are the Tobacco Specific Nitrosoamines (TSNA's). There are several major ones. Some tobaccos have higher levels than others. TSNAs increase as tobacco ages. Burley has the highest levels that's why the tobacco industry has mandated that farmers only grow Low Convertor (LC) Burley. LC has a very low conversion rate of nicotine to nornicotine which is the main substrate for one of the major TSNAs. Flue cured has almost no TSNAs due to the high heat treatment the leaves get. This heat treatment kills the enzymes that make TSNAs possible. I would suspect the Turkish and Cigar tobaccos have levels somewhat less than a regular Burley leaf.

The link with Nornicotine to cancer is also very weak but not so weak that I would totally discount it. Nornicotine greatly reduces Alzheimer's Disease and is one of the most potent analgesics ever discovered. So pick your poison, smoke tobacco with carcinogens and maybe get cancer or smoke tobacco with carcinogens and reduce your risk of Alzheimer's.

Vitamin C reduces the carcinogenic effects of nitroseamines.


I should note that seco leaves might have higher levels of TSNAs because typically as you go up the stalk of a tobacco plant the nicotine level increases. More nicotine means more conversion to TSNAs

The Scandinavian Countries were granted a reprieve from the EU a year or two ago for the manufacture of Snus. The manufacture/sale of Snus had been limited due to the cancer causing effects of using it. Due to the petition by the Snus manufacturers the European equivalent of the FDA did an extensive review of the literature and analyzed samples of snus. What they found is that the risk of developing cancer from Snus use was almost non existent. I find it interesting that the Snus manufacturers claim the reason for this is the elimintaion of TSNAs. They do this subjecting the freshly cured leaf to very high temperatures. By not letting the leaf age they limit the amount of TSNAs that develop with aged leaf.
 
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webmost

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Recent studies funded by the American Canker Sore Society comparing the incidence of throat cancer among female laboratory workers to ovarian cancer among spayed labrador retrievers conclusively show that laboratory studies cause cancer.
 

deluxestogie

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I heard from a friend...
Since "carcinogen" is not an easily observable property of a substance, outside of a laboratory, I have to assume that the assertion is based on published results--published somewhere. Lacking a reference to the published study, which would enable an intelligent discussion of the result--its methodology and assumptions, we are left with conjecture.

Now, I recognize that evaluating the validity of a published study may require a substantial background in the relevant science. But the discussion really needs to start with a reference. At least...that's what I've heard.

Bob
 
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Jason

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I've asked my friend for a reference point. He said he'll get back to me tomorrow.

I too am questioning the authenticity of his claim, however, his voice had sincerity in it.

Regardless, enjoying a piloto cubano seco blend as we speak.

Best,

Jason
 

deluxestogie

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One of the many studies found by running a Google search on "tobacco carcinogens stalk position":

the following parameters decrease with increasing height of stalk position of the bright-tobacco leaf:
1. Filling power and pressure drop (Table 1.),
2. Combustibility and static-burning rate (Table 1).

These two factors and the change in the chemical composition of the leaves result in increased yields of the following smoke constituents with increase in height of stalk position:
1. TPM (Table 1),
2. Nicotine (Table 1.),
3. pH of total smoke (Table 2),
4· Hydrogen cyanide (Table 4),
5· Volatile phenols (Table 5),
6. PAH, as determined with BaA and BaP (Table 6)

The results demonstrate that the higher the leaf on the stalk, the less its filling power and combustibility and the greater the pH, total particulate matter, nicotine, hydrogen cyanide, volatile phenols, and polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons of the mainstream smoke. Carbon monoxide, acetaldehyde, and acrolein are found in the highest concentration in the smoke formed from leaves in the middle stalk positions. The concentration of CO2 was comparable for the smoke from the leaves of all stalk positions of a given bright tobacco variety.
These chemical·analytical data suggest that the relative potential toxicity and tumorigenicity of the smoke of bright tobacco increase with the ascending stalk position of the leaf.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ZaOzFFd1Gfredd4HZaUgODQ&bvm=bv.99556055,d.eXY

Although the study is specific for flue-cured tobacco, its results seem to be contrary to the proposed concern over seco.

Bob
 

ChinaVoodoo

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There. It's settled. Now I can continue to focus on living a long life by eating my vegetables, drinking alcohol in moderation, and by not texting while driving,
 

Jason

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*Update*

My friend texted me today, his previous information was false.

Keep puffin,

Jason
 
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