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Yellowing, twisted assymetric leaves.....

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Old Patroon

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Hi folks,

After several unsuccesful attempts at germination I finally got my first crop of virginia gold growing this year.
But... many plants are showing a lightening and twisting of the leaves.

leaves 1.jpgleaves 2.jpg

Can anyone advise me on what may be causing this?

It seems odd that not all plants are affected as the soil was very carefully prepared. Triple dug with masses of very well rotted compost (2 years old), additional nitrate fertiliser and several kilos of wood ashes all thoroughly dug in to the bed. Once established, the seedlings grew exceptionally well, so much so that my gardening neighbours all commented on how good and healthy the plants looked. Then a fortnight back this yellowing started to appear and then the leaves started to become asymmetrical and started to twist. I am not sure if these twisted leaves will be ok to smoke but if they arent, I guess I will lose approximately two thirds of my crop :(

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

O P
 

kullas

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It could be that that plant is diseased. How many of the plants is it affecting?
 

deluxestogie

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Welcome to the forum. A location might be helpful. My initial impression is that the plants are showing what is called "Frenching," which is not a specific problem, but a symptom of nutrient imbalance. [http://www.ipmimages.org/browse/subthumb.cfm?sub=6964&area=62 ] It can be caused by specific element deficiencies, but given your soil prep, I would suspect that it might be an issue with the soil pH. It should ideally be below 6.0.

Herbicide drift (?from a neighbor or road crew?) is another possible explanation. But the plants should be showing more necrosis and wilting 2 weeks after the fact.

Since the problem has been present for 2 weeks, it seems unlikely to represent any of the viral or bacterial pathogens that commonly affect tobacco. But you might want to browse through all the IPM image categories for tobacco: http://www.ipmimages.org/browse/AreaSubs.cfm?area=62

Frenching, regardless of the cause, does reduce the plant's productivity, but the affected leaf can still be harvested, cured and smoked.

Bob

EDIT: MarcL makes a good point. Late season Frenching may be caused by (nutritional deficiency as a result of) overcrowding. What is the spacing between plants?
 

Old Patroon

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Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll try to answer the q's. Location is south east uk, planting density 2'x2' spacing, which looks crowded i.e leaves overlapping neighbours, of 30 plants 26 are being affected. I dont know the soil pH but will check a.s.a.p and report back. Thanks agin. O P
 

CT Tobaccoman

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If this is happening on only one side of the plant it is most likely fusarium wilt and there is no cure. But often you might get a few screwed up leaves on a plant that is otherwise ok, especially when plants are young. Pick the bad leaves off so as not to attract bugs, if the leaves start to die and rot, that is. I see no discoloration as yet, so I would do as Bob says. Cigarette tobacco can still be curable and smokable regardless of a lot of conditions. Yellowing on the stalk is ok as long as there is no rot
 

CT Tobaccoman

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Also, make sure it is not blue mold. There is heavy infestation of blue mold in all tobacco growing regions from Central America to New England this summer. Are there lesions, front and back sides of leaves of a grayish or brownish white color?
 

DGBAMA

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Virginia Gold leaf should be much wider, so I am inclined to agree with Bob. Combination of frenching and early maturing. Will still be good leaf, but a much reduced yield due to the narrow leaves.
 

Old Patroon

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When I said the plant spacing was 2' x 2' that may have been misleading. What I meant was that the plants are spaced 2' apart in rows that are also 2' apart. The larger leaves are definitely shading out adjacent plants leaves and I am noticing some paleness on the leaves that are in the shade (which seems understandable to me) but that is not he problem i was reffering to. It seems general guidelines are 2' apart with rows 3' apart but I was trying to maximise the yield from my little plot. I will definitely go for less plants next year or make the plot bigger.
 

deluxestogie

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Each of my 5' x 12' beds contain 16 full size plants. They are staggered in a hexagonal layout. The spacing between plants ranges from 21.6" to 24", but no more. It is not unusual for the leaves to overlap. The only benefit of 3' between "rows" is to allow human access to the plants.

BedLayoutExample.JPG


This spacing does not result in stunting, and allows me access to each plant from the side of the bed.

Bob
 

Rickey60

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You might have put to much of the wood ashes. I think they are bringing your ph high. If you mixed them in when you planted the ashes would start reacting with the soil slowly over a period of several months bringing the pH higher. If your ph was around 6 to start you might have a pH much higher now. Just a thought.
 

Matty

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I'm gonna say ph as well, ashes (potash, dolomite) should be put down soon after the last crop is done so as to give more time for the ashes to break down and the soil ph settle down. Applying the ashes soon before planting doesn't give enough time to for the ph to settle down so in this case the ph is slowly rising during the growing season which would account for the nice early growth described and then the deformations coming later on.
Those leaves remind me of the GL939 I've been growing the past few years, they give me a hard time germinating and seem to be more prone to disease than anything else in the garden. GL939 makes long narrow leaves that get really rumply and frilly. Sometimes they twist a bit too.
 

Old Patroon

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Thanks everybody, this has been a great help. Relieved that It's not curtains for the crop! I am intrigued by the pH issue and was intending to borrow a farmer friends test kit but... I grow 2 greenhouses of hydroponic tomatoes, cucumbers and peppers. I use an electronic pH tester for the hydro nutrient tanks. My question is: if I were to dissolve some soil in a beaker of distilled pH 7.0 water overnight, and then re measure pH the following day does that seem like an ok way of measuring the soil pH? My farmer friends kit is ancient and I wonder if my new meter method might be a better option. Also,after a bit of reading I discovered that not only will wood ash raise pH but sulfur and a couple of other chemicals will lower it. If i find my soil is indeed too high what would be the recommended method to reduce it suitable for tobacco?

O P
 

Knucklehead

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I found some instructions for measuring soil pH with a pH meter. I didn't read the articles or watch the video as I don't have enough info concerning your meter. A couple of the links are from Universities. One is a youtube video. Read and watch them all to find the method that works with your equipment. Post your results.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/test-soil-ph-digital-ph-meter-71906.html
https://video.search.yahoo.com/vide...p&sigi=125etsf65&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002
http://smallfarms.oregonstate.edu/sfn/f10soilPh
http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/research_methods/environ_sampling/pH_EC.html

Soil pH is especially important as it affects a plants' ability to take up needed nutrients. Even if you have the perfect amount of fertilizer, the wrong pH can prevent a plant from making use of it.

EDIT: Articles from Universities related to lowering a soil's pH level:
http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/1994/4-6-1994/ph.html
http://web.extension.illinois.edu/cfiv/homeowners/080818.html
http://ohioline.osu.edu/agf-fact/0507.html
 

CT Tobaccoman

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I use a simple ph test kit available at garden stores for under 10 bucks for multiple tests. Soil acidifier for roses or hydrangeas is probably fastest acting. You could grind up match heads, one pack of matches per plant and spread it near the base of the plants. Use distilled water for ph tests. When I test in the spring I take several soil samples from the lot and mix them together to get a better idea. Changing ph is a slow business usually
 

rustycase

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IMO

...just my two pence...

I would suggest all bets are off when growing tobacco on the sunny, arid, island. ((joke)) :)

Any number of members do grow tobacco in the British Isles, and also more northern latitudes. (Norway!)

Frenching, or some other growth abnormality would not be something completely un-expected in that environment.

In my arid environment I will never grow the same quality as they do in Cuba, without a fully equipped greenhouse.

Many British folks do a fine job in their greenhouses. Outdoors? Not so much.

Good luck
rc
 

Old Patroon

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I finally got around to testing soil pH and as predicted by previous posters it is indeed too high. Interestingly the pH seems to have hot spots where it is better than others, with the stronger more robust plants all being around zones at approx 5.8. This again supports the theory of alkalinity from ashes being the culprit. So, what to do about it? The plants are all out now bar 2 which I am holding back for seed but they look close to maturity and I will be able to start treating the bed as soon as they are out. Any sugestions on my best choices for 1. evening out pH across bed. and 2. How to lower the pH.

Finally, whilst uprooting and breaking the old plant stems I notived a significant discolouration of the inside of the stem on some plants. ( these were fresh out of the ground).

Corebad.jpg coregood.jpg
Left pic bad and right pic normal (i hope) :)

This correlates with some discolouration I notived on the veins of some leaves....

Any suggestions on the cause?


Thanks folks.

OP
 

Alpine

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Usually mature compost lowers pH in the soil in a more natural and durable way. IIRC sulphur allows the plants to absorbe iron but does not affect pH. If i were you, i would add a little S to the rows just to arrive at harvest time, and before winter dig the soil working in mature manure and not so mature compost (it's more acidic than well aged compost).
rainy UK winter will do the rest of the job.
retest your soil in spring and it should be fine.
Always get a 2nd opinion on everything i say!
Pier
 
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