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Time frames...

BAGraphics

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So, I got the rolling part down to the point that I can roll a smokeable cigar that looks like a real cigar. I will be refining my technique over time. My question is... Timeframes.

Roll, cut and put in mold. 2-5 mins.
Leave in mold to dry/shape round 1. ?? Mins
Make quarter turn in mold round 2. ?? Mins
Leave in mold dry time. ??
Drying rack/table/cigar box dry. ?? Days, weeks
Put in humidor before first smoke ??

now I've heard about a 48/48 guideline where if you get a fresh rolled, or roll one yourself, cigar you either smoke it within the first 48 hours or after 48 days. The 48 days comes from ammonia being created as the stick starts melding and taking on its own characteristics. How valid is this though process?

Thanks!
 

waikikigun

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For me it varies on the intention of the stick. But since I'm mostly in a "blend for a couple years and learn something," phase, it's this:

(I'm in no hurry at all and prefer a leisurely zero-stress pace).

Bunch: 5-10 mins
Mold: 1 hr - 1 day
Turn, mold: 1-2 days
Roll and cap: 10 mins
Drybox: 1 week
And then from drybox to my lips and smoke for 45 mins to 1.5 hrs

So, I've found there is no ammonia issue, in my case, at one week. In the past, when I was more about "Gotta roll a quality stick now," instead of, "I need to chill and learn for a couple years," I dried for a month, then humi'd for x amount of weeks, and occasionally did in fact get ammonia. But I don't get it at one week, no.
 

deluxestogie

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48/48?

Purchasers, vendors and manufacturers of commercial pipe and cigar products invent "rules" and named methods. As waikikigun points out, you can easily discover the realities, and they are often different from the rules.

Finished tobacco, whether whole leaf or a rolled cigar, may occasionally experience increased enzymatic oxidation (sweating or fermenting), depending on the storage conditions. If you notice any ammonia smell in a stored item, just air it out for a day or so. No big deal.

Bob
 

kullas

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Finished tobacco, whether whole leaf or a rolled cigar, may occasionally experience increased enzymatic oxidation (sweating or fermenting), depending on the storage conditions. If you notice any ammonia smell in a stored item, just air it out for a day or so. No big deal.

Bob
I had half of a wrapper leaf I left in the Ziploc an extra day by accident and had a strong smell of ammonia. I did use it. I let it set out over night and is better but still there. After reading what ya wrote there is hope for it. I will just let it set out out fore a couple more days.
 

Smokin Harley

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So, I got the rolling part down to the point that I can roll a smokeable cigar that looks like a real cigar. I will be refining my technique over time. My question is... Timeframes.

Roll, cut and put in mold. 2-5 mins.
Leave in mold to dry/shape round 1. ?? Mins
Make quarter turn in mold round 2. ?? Mins
Leave in mold dry time. ??
Drying rack/table/cigar box dry. ?? Days, weeks
Put in humidor before first smoke ??

now I've heard about a 48/48 guideline where if you get a fresh rolled, or roll one yourself, cigar you either smoke it within the first 48 hours or after 48 days. The 48 days comes from ammonia being created as the stick starts melding and taking on its own characteristics. How valid is this though process?

Thanks!
Time doesn't matter .Not for me anyway. This is for personal enjoyment, not for any type of production quotas.
I take my time deciding what blend I'll use way beforehand. Because I need to make sure my binder is not dried out to the point it will crack or crumble. I don't even worry about casing up the wrapper leaf ,the only thing I do is decide which wrapper I will use, maybe two or three actually to try a new blend and see how my tastes like various presentations and tastes.
Whatever it takes for you to roll a smokable cigar is fine...quality over quantity ,right?
stick to mold and quarter turn...about a half hour to an hour ,depends on the case of your leaf and humidity in your rolling area.
drying rack - (cross posting, if your tobacco factory source has one ),I'd love to own one. For now, I just lay the finished ones on the table and let them sit for two days minimum.
I really don't even have a set timeframe I put them in the humidor . Its been very humid this summer so the humidity has been pretty close to 65% so they sit out. I'll box them in about a month when fall weather drops humidity.
I read the 48/48 thing too. I buy into it a little . I've seen and taste tested the difference in a rested stick over a fresh roll...but its your cigars ,and your taste .
Try one .
 

kullas

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Don't forget to add your in the timeframe for a couple sticks to set in a whole bean coffee bag to help remove some moisture and pick up some essential oils from the coffee and infuse it for the taste.
While I know this is not for everyone it tastes good to me, not to mention they are expensive to buy in the store.
A couple weeks in a coffee bag with some beans should do it.
 

Knucklehead

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I normally smoke cigarettes so I only roll one or two cigars at a time. If my wrapper only has one perfect side, I'll use the other side for a binder, then roll one cigar for immediate use. If I use different varieties for binder and wrapper and the wrapper is perfect, I'll roll two. One to smoke and one for the humidor. That way I don't have left over wet leaf laying around looking for trouble. I don't use a mold I just roll for myself.
 

BAGraphics

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Let me rephrase and bring the topic back to my original question.

So so as to not cause mold to grow, how long should I dry my cigars by letting them sit out before placing them in my humidor if I wish to smoke them at a later time and not within the next few weeks. I just squired a great antique drying rack and now have reason to use it for its intended purpose.

I just found mold in my scrap bag and it got me thinking about putting the wet wrapper/binder into a closed system before the leaf dries out. A rolling buddy of mine who started when I did has rolled about 6 sticks and put them directly into his humidor. After a few days he said he needed to air it out a bit to release some humidity because of the new sticks. This is why I am asking about time before humidor storage. I would hate to ruin some sticks because unsealed them up too soon.

And...... To add another question. What do people think about using a food dehydrator to bring high case wrapper that ended up not being used down to low case to be stored for a later time?

Thanks
 

Knucklehead

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You're going to get a hundred different answers from people that live in drier or wetter climates than you do. ArizonaDave is going to have a totally different experience from Chicken in Florida. It depends on where you live and what your humidity is at any given time. I have very high humidity in the summer which plunges to low humidity almost over night in the fall. You may have a different climate and will have to address that situation differently than I do. All my tobacco is stored in my basement where the dehumidifiers keep humidity around 55% in summer, and lower in the winter.

It's also going to depend a lot on how dry your filler is when you roll. I roll with filler in low case. A wet wrapper on the outside of a dry bunch dries pretty fast. If you roll with filler that has more moisture, it will be more prone to mold and will take longer to dry.

I don't think one hard and fast rule is going to apply to everyone because of the varying variables.

I don't know anything about food dehydrators. If you give it a try, let us know how it works.
 

Gdaddy

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If you roll your cigar filler using dry/low case filler (just above the point of cracking) and a medium case binder (for flexability) and a damp, high case wrapper. The only part that really needs drying is the wrapper and a little bit on the binder. I leave them out on a table in an air conditioned room (54% rh) for 5 or 6 days then into the humidor at 63% rh. I visited Habanero cigar co. in Ybor city and they let their cigars room dry for 15 days then to the humidor for 45 days before shipping them out.

I suspect some people roll a bit more damp and run the risk of developing mold. As you know, it grows pretty quickly so low case filler is pretty important plus it's in the middle of the cigar where it can hold in the moisture. The outer perimeter of binder and wrapper can dry much easier being closer to the air.

You could simply leave the wrapper leaf out to air dry for a few hours. I think it's a safer way. Sometimes that dehydrator can quickly dry the leaf too much unless you keep a close eye on it and it's crunchy and super dry. I have ruined some leaf this way.
 

MarcL

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I like that it's very hands on stuff. To get a stick into a shape I have to ad water to handle it so it doesn't turn to dust. If the humidity in the room is to dry, I'll have less time to do so for the leaves will dry out to fast. I have used a humidifier to give me more time when I'm making more then just a few sticks. More so in the winter. If I end up getting them in the mold to wet, then I'll need to let then dry more before wrapping. Rotating out the seams also depends on that moister. Often I will leave them in the molds over night. Wood molds wick away better then plastic ones. After the wrapper, I'll put them in containers with dry scrap leaf to slowly wick out moister. If need be, I'll re dry the scrap. I keep sets of cigars made together, that is when I roll them together. You should be able to just aerate what your not using enough to store them. remove the air from the bags. I do have to keep an eye on stuff that is stored. I is just very hands on stuff. A timer, for me, just doesn't come into play.
 

BAGraphics

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Great answers all. One reason I like this endeavor is because it is hands on and very variable. I get this way when I start a new project where I want to know various ways to get to the same end result. I know I will make mistakes, already have made some doozies and expect to make some more but I want to also make educated decisions on actions that could have been avoided.

Thanks all!
 

Knucklehead

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Great answers all. One reason I like this endeavor is because it is hands on and very variable. I get this way when I start a new project where I want to know various ways to get to the same end result. I know I will make mistakes, already have made some doozies and expect to make some more but I want to also make educated decisions on actions that could have been avoided.

Thanks all!

Yeah, that's the key. You have to try different ways to find out what works best for you.
 
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webmost

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Let me rephrase and bring the topic back to my original question.

So so as to not cause mold to grow, how long should I dry my cigars by letting them sit out before placing them in my humidor if I wish to smoke them at a later time and not within the next few weeks. I just squired a great antique drying rack and now have reason to use it for its intended purpose.

I just found mold in my scrap bag and it got me thinking about putting the wet wrapper/binder into a closed system before the leaf dries out. A rolling buddy of mine who started when I did has rolled about 6 sticks and put them directly into his humidor. After a few days he said he needed to air it out a bit to release some humidity because of the new sticks. This is why I am asking about time before humidor storage. I would hate to ruin some sticks because unsealed them up too soon.

And...... To add another question. What do people think about using a food dehydrator to bring high case wrapper that ended up not being used down to low case to be stored for a later time?

Thanks

I live not that far from you in Newark Dull-Aware. Air is in high case here in summer. I roll in my home office upstairs. I have a window air conditioner up there to save on the central air. Cools the office and the air falls down the stairs and makes life much easier on the central unit. Central air does not kick on until afternoon.

Anyhoo...

A/C blows right on the rolling table. A/C air is in low case. That really helps dry out fresh rolls. No matter how damp the wrapper, just a day or a day and night is most always enough to dry them out enough to box. I don't have a drying rack. I just leave them on top of a fine looking old humidor. I might roll them over once. Or not. Never had an ammonia prob that way.

In Winter, of course, with heat going, it's always pretty low case inside the house. In fact, we have a high-case-ifier that we spark up in Winter, sits right outside the office. Sucks up a couple gallons a day, once it gets good and cold out.

You can smoke one of my cigars right away. I just think they are tastier given a couple moons. Unrelated to any question of ammonia.

Now, when the filler itself is too damp, then that's another story. I do have a dry box where I can keep them critters separate for a month or so. Ammonia smell gives me a headache, so I don't let that happen. A packet of those drying crystals helps... but it takes some time to get things dry to the center. I never dampen filler Don sends me. It's always just right as is. Had some sticks get too damp when it cased cats and dogs two weeks straight riding out to Minnesota and back. They got white mold spots. I kept them apart from the others and smoked them up.

As for mold in the scrap bag, try this: My only scrap (which is not bloody much at all) is a few bits of left over wrapper. That becomes binder next time I roll. These are the bits cut out from the inner part of the wrapper leaf. I set these aside until I am done fooling round in the office. By then, they are dry enough to set in an ersatz tupperware from the dollar store. I'd say this unit is about maybe 14" long, 6" wide, and 2" deep. The lid is nowhere near airtight. So there is room inside for air, and I suppose slight air can get in and out. This is my binder bin. It lives inside the stackable cooler that I use for a ready supply of leaves. Nothing damp ever gets stored inside a bag. I never dampen any more wrapper than I am about to use right away. Have not had things go south doing this.

Now and then, I pinch some left-over binder to serve as organic natural humi-pak when sending out a package.

Let's say I am working to fill a box with a blend which I figure is boxworthy. In that case (no, not that other "case"), I'll roll most every day. Here's the routine:

I'll grab two new wrapper leaves from Don's bag, de-stem them, stretch them, and lay them between wet towel folds for a bit, to dampen. Next, I'll take four perfectos out of the mold. These are the sticks which I bunched and bound the day before. I never rotate my sticks in the mold. Sometimes I get a crease... mostly the crease rolls out. I set these molded blanks aside to expand a bit, so they aren't so tight. I'll bunch four more perfectos using the binder I cut last time and stored in the ersatz tupperware, stick these new bound bunches in the mold, and set it aside for next day. That just takes maybe 15-20 minutes, depending how engrossing the DVR'd MMA bout is that I am watching on the toob at the time. If it's Rhonda Rousey, I may have to stop what I'm doing and don't blink... then re-wind the thing six times to marvel. She is killa. Time now to remove my damp wrappers from the towel, cut the centers out for binders next time, setting those centers aside to dry out before putting them in the ersatz tupp, roll my four bound bunches from the day before on the board to easy the crease, wrap them, then set those aside to dry. That's apt to take 20-30 minutes. So when I am working to fill a box with a blend I have found boxworthy, I am typically working on bunching what I will wrap tomorrow, and wrapping what I bunched yesterday. Seems to work out. Takes about an hour all told. In climate very similar to yours, with a window A/C to help dry, I have had neither mold nor ammonia.

On a completely unrelated note, the name Tupperware comes from old man Tupper, of course. How he inherited his name is the mystery. Tupp is a word from animal husbandry. A bull is said to service a cow, a stallion to cover a mare, a boar screws cause there's a corkscrew shaped bone in his doodle, deer rut, dogs breed, cats caterwaul ... but a ram is said to tupp a ewe. You could make the case that Tupper's thrice great grandpa was a lonely shepherd. We don't know.
 

MarcL

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Thanks...you are correct. I made pizza the other night and used some habanero peppers so they're still on my mind (and palate).

That's funny. knowing you were at Tabanero I thought that's what you meant then, realizing that there was a Habanero Cigar Co. I had to add "or is it?"
 

FrostD

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I live not that far from you in Newark Dull-Aware. Air is in high case here in summer. I roll in my home office upstairs. I have a window air conditioner up there to save on the central air. Cools the office and the air falls down the stairs and makes life much easier on the central unit. Central air does not kick on until afternoon.

Anyhoo...

A/C blows right on the rolling table. A/C air is in low case. That really helps dry out fresh rolls. No matter how damp the wrapper, just a day or a day and night is most always enough to dry them out enough to box. I don't have a drying rack. I just leave them on top of a fine looking old humidor. I might roll them over once. Or not. Never had an ammonia prob that way.

In Winter, of course, with heat going, it's always pretty low case inside the house. In fact, we have a high-case-ifier that we spark up in Winter, sits right outside the office. Sucks up a couple gallons a day, once it gets good and cold out.

You can smoke one of my cigars right away. I just think they are tastier given a couple moons. Unrelated to any question of ammonia.

Now, when the filler itself is too damp, then that's another story. I do have a dry box where I can keep them critters separate for a month or so. Ammonia smell gives me a headache, so I don't let that happen. A packet of those drying crystals helps... but it takes some time to get things dry to the center. I never dampen filler Don sends me. It's always just right as is. Had some sticks get too damp when it cased cats and dogs two weeks straight riding out to Minnesota and back. They got white mold spots. I kept them apart from the others and smoked them up.

As for mold in the scrap bag, try this: My only scrap (which is not bloody much at all) is a few bits of left over wrapper. That becomes binder next time I roll. These are the bits cut out from the inner part of the wrapper leaf. I set these aside until I am done fooling round in the office. By then, they are dry enough to set in an ersatz tupperware from the dollar store. I'd say this unit is about maybe 14" long, 6" wide, and 2" deep. The lid is nowhere near airtight. So there is room inside for air, and I suppose slight air can get in and out. This is my binder bin. It lives inside the stackable cooler that I use for a ready supply of leaves. Nothing damp ever gets stored inside a bag. I never dampen any more wrapper than I am about to use right away. Have not had things go south doing this.

Now and then, I pinch some left-over binder to serve as organic natural humi-pak when sending out a package.

Let's say I am working to fill a box with a blend which I figure is boxworthy. In that case (no, not that other "case"), I'll roll most every day. Here's the routine:

I'll grab two new wrapper leaves from Don's bag, de-stem them, stretch them, and lay them between wet towel folds for a bit, to dampen. Next, I'll take four perfectos out of the mold. These are the sticks which I bunched and bound the day before. I never rotate my sticks in the mold. Sometimes I get a crease... mostly the crease rolls out. I set these molded blanks aside to expand a bit, so they aren't so tight. I'll bunch four more perfectos using the binder I cut last time and stored in the ersatz tupperware, stick these new bound bunches in the mold, and set it aside for next day. That just takes maybe 15-20 minutes, depending how engrossing the DVR'd MMA bout is that I am watching on the toob at the time. If it's Rhonda Rousey, I may have to stop what I'm doing and don't blink... then re-wind the thing six times to marvel. She is killa. Time now to remove my damp wrappers from the towel, cut the centers out for binders next time, setting those centers aside to dry out before putting them in the ersatz tupp, roll my four bound bunches from the day before on the board to easy the crease, wrap them, then set those aside to dry. That's apt to take 20-30 minutes. So when I am working to fill a box with a blend I have found boxworthy, I am typically working on bunching what I will wrap tomorrow, and wrapping what I bunched yesterday. Seems to work out. Takes about an hour all told. In climate very similar to yours, with a window A/C to help dry, I have had neither mold nor ammonia.

On a completely unrelated note, the name Tupperware comes from old man Tupper, of course. How he inherited his name is the mystery. Tupp is a word from animal husbandry. A bull is said to service a cow, a stallion to cover a mare, a boar screws cause there's a corkscrew shaped bone in his doodle, deer rut, dogs breed, cats caterwaul ... but a ram is said to tupp a ewe. You could make the case that Tupper's thrice great grandpa was a lonely shepherd. We don't know.

GREAT INFO!!

I know this is a very old post, but @webmost this is a fantastic method to get started. After my initial “must roll all the leafs RIGHT AWAY” mentality, I needed to shift that mindset to be more efficient in what I’m personally trying to do. Your process is kinda where I’m at now and is smart. Depending on how many one smokes in a day/week/month makes a difference too. Roll 1 Smoke 1 (or 5 ;)) really does make a big difference in finding your preferred blend. I learned this from all of you here. Much appreciation!
 

webmost

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Holy cow! That post is from long ago! Takes me back.

Yeah, that Ronda Rousey was a whole lot of fun, watching her come to stardom. The impressive thing is how in a sport separated into weight classes, she succeeded while carrying significant extra poundage. She had a woman's hips and thighs, and plentiful womanly equipment up front. Not just a heroine, but a mother of heroes as well. If you figure both gals are weighing in at 135, where she's toting 20 lbs of baby feeders while the other gal is built like a tomboy, then that's 15% handicap. Did well, until she met up with that long lanky preacher's daughter.

I don't do four gars at a time any more. I always do two a day. Two a day, two a day, that's the way, day after day.
 
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