Too Stupid to Give Up.....

[deluxestogie]

Outstanding! 95% yellow leaf is an unusually good run for anybody. When I click on the final image, it looks excellent--except for the blue box. Lay some of that yellow leaf out on the green grass, and take another photo.

So, experience really is worth something. You are now a flue-curing artiste.

Bob

PS. Are there any trees near the "bad" side of your tunnel?

 

[AmaxB]

Hi Bex good going! Four days pretty good you don't need high tech just understanding. Think the guy with post above said something to that line. If paying attention the more you do this the better things get...
Just a thought be sure air can move in your box.

 

[Chicken]

seems like your on the path we all are on...we get better each time we do it,

we all have our downfalls.. but its how we bounce back that counts,

 

[Bex]

Ah, that's kind of what I meant by needing a new camera....the box isn't blue - it's actually clear plastic. However...and there always must be one, I imagine....I put the leaf into that box, put the top on it and left it overnight. Perhaps this is something like when you meet someone who is absolutely gorgeous, but when they open their mouths....ugh. This morning, when I opened the box with my beautiful looking leaf, the smell was not particularly pleasant. Everything looks good, the leaf is nice and yellow, dry, midribs dry, etc. but the smell.....

The box is set up with two small computer fans on either side, pointing upward at about a 45* angle. I can feel the air coming out of the vent, so I imagine that the air is moving inside.

The tunnel is built on a hill - and the upper side of the tunnel is the side that the plants do poorly on. No trees around, but the clay is strangely much heavier than a few feet away, on the lower side of the tunnel. I may have to do something with this for next year...

And now, as no post of mine could not relate something really stupid....I had planted about 30 or so burley plants, along with my virginia. When they were in the flats, I knew exactly where they were. I was a bit cavalier about this, as last year, I could tell right away which plants were burley or virginia, when they were in the tunnel. Sadly, this year, I don't have a clue which is which. The burley leaf, last year, was more rounded, not nearly as long or big. But everything looks pretty much the same to me this year. Is there any way to tell the difference? And what happens if you flue cure burley??

By the way, as usual, thanks for the feedback and encouragement!!

 

[Bex]

OK, so I may have found my problem. I took a handful of the tobacco to photograph, and found that some of the midribs are still supple and not 'crispy'. Could that be the cause of the smell....and if so, what do I do about it??

In any event, as per your command, here is a photo on the green, green grass of home:

 

[deluxestogie]

...what do I do about it?

Fully dry them immediately.

Uphill slope: less ground moisture.
Burley v. Virginia: Many varieties of burley tend to lose their chlorophyll in the lower leaves-->white leaves.

Burley will flue-cure to a photogenic hue, but not be very nice to smoke. Once the stems are all fully dry, you might want to set the leaves out in the air separately, wait a day or so, then smell each one. The burley will smell different from the Virginia. If no smell, then lightly mist each separate leaf and smell again after 20 minutes.

Bob

 

[Bex]

Fully dry them: Hmmm.....the leaf is pretty dry. I am wondering, regarding the midrib....anyone ever try microwaving for a couple of seconds to dry the midrib out more fully? Or the oven? Any suggestions?

Uphill slope: Ah, normally I would agree with you, but as the soil on the uphill portion is so much heavier than the downhill (and good) side, it has poorer drainage, so actually tends to stay wetter than the downhill side. I think that perhaps the soil is just too heavy. I'll see about adding sand or similar to it for next year, so that it drains better.....

Thanks for the info about the burley, and how to test for the difference. Will try that!! Meanwhile, second run going along swimmingly. I'll be a lot more conscientious about making sure those midribs are crispy before I end it.....Remember, Bob, you are my hero - if it wasn't for you (and the lovely Cozy Can), I never would have tried this.....

 

[deluxestogie]

Ah. Yes. I'm still seeking closure on the passing of the Cozy Can.

About the stem kill on this second flue-cure run, keep in mind that (once you're past about 135ºF) additional time at 165ºF will not darken the leaf. It will just dry the stems. However, peeking--and letting moisture back into the chamber--above 135ºF will darken the leaf.

Bob

 

[Bex]

The Cozy Can will live on forever!!

Thanks for the tip about stem/midrib drying....I am still having a bit of an 'issue' with humidity - I found that when I went into stem drying, with my vent open, I was able to maintain a lower RH, and assumed that when I raised the temp more, I would be able to close the vent for the final stage. But when I closed the vent, the RH started to rise. I am able to maintain 165F with the vent open, with no problem, so perhaps it's best that I leave the vent open for the entire run???

 

[Brown Thumb]

Looking Good, Two Brown thumbs Up.
Leave the vent open at 165.
Dont Change too many variables at once.

 

[Bex]

Thanks....good advice and will do. Fingers crossed for the 2nd run....

 

[deluxestogie]

I agree with BT's advice.

I believe there is some confusion of terms here. Stem kill begins after the stems are pretty much dried down, though not yet crunchy brittle. The common recommendation in Extension Service flue-curing documentation (when following the ramp schedule) is for the venting to be fully closed early in stem kill. This suggests that there isn't much water left there to raise the humidity.

BUT...if you can get those stems dark and brittle the way you're doing it, then keep up the good work.

Bob

 

[Bex]

Well, it is the best of times, it is the worst of times. First, of course, for the best. My second run is over. I am finding it incredibly easy to get yellow leaf, and the color on this run is even better than the last. First, a photo:



And the requisite few leaves, laying on green grass:



I went through the schedule fairly accurately, ending at 160F, but found that even holding that for hours, I couldn't get my chamber down past 23% RH. But apparently, or hopefully, that may be something that has to do with my hygrometer. The leaf was crackling dry, and it took a good few hours with water in the pot, after the run was over, for me to be able to move them. The midrib was totally dried out. I put them in my plastic box, and here is a comparison of the first to second run - the second run being the box on top, and even nicer color than the first:



Naturally, the ONLY two leaves that have any semblance of 'green' on them, are in the front of the photo. Pah, the rest are as yellow as can be. But now, for my problem. The stuff stinks. My first batch had that whiff of 'asparagus' - I figured that it was because I didn't go all the way with the midrib, perhaps, but ended too soon. This time, I did go all the way - it looks good, it was dried properly, I followed a good schedule, allowing the drop in the RH to dictate my rise in temp - but it still stinks. Not quite as much as the first batch, but it surely doesn't smell like tobacco. So, I'm wondering why....as I am unable to tell whether a few of the leaves in there are burley, would flue cured burley have such a smell? Is this normal? I haven't tried smoking any of it, but I'd really like to get this right, particularly as the leaf is yellowing so nicely. So now, my color is fine, but the smell is off. Hoping that someone has some idea why....

 

[deluxestogie]

I can't say why it is there, but the smell of asparagus is from the release of asparagine, which happens when green leaf is cooked.

My theory: Burley (in contrast to every other variety) requires more time (a week or two) after color-curing before all the other metabolic changes have completed. If you flue-cure it, the leaf is being cooked while some amino acids (e.g. asparagine) have not yet been broken down.

Solution (if my theory is correct): don't be flue-curing burley.

Bob

ALSO: take all the leaf out of boxes, and allow them to air out. Then you may be able to separate the Virginia from the burley by aroma.

 

[Brown Thumb]

Looks good. Let the leaf air out. The smell will go away.
bob beat me to it but If you had burly in there I would think it would have cured brown.

 

[Bex]

Thanks, guys. I put the leaf out on to the bed in the spare bedroom - I knew I had that bed for a purpose.....Actually, my fingers are crossed, as I was beginning to develop THIS theory: This year, I used Virginia seed from a guy in England, that has been piggy-backing on this flue curing journey with me. He advised that he got the original Virginia seed from 'Ed'; that this seed was what he had collected off of his plants from last year; that it was acclimatized to our conditions; and that he was having no trouble getting it to yellow (although the taste was always horrible - but he was screwing around with the flue curing technique....). While I had really good seed from a 'reputable' supplier for last year, I decided to try this, thinking maybe this seed would be easier for me. I used the Virginia seed from the English guy, and the burley from the reputable supplier this year. Last year, it was really easy for me to see the difference in the burley and Virginia leaf - of course, that may be because the burley was growing on the 'bad side' of the tunnel. But this year, I can't tell the difference at all. All the leaf looks the same, regardless of where it is planted. I was starting to develop the theory that perhaps.....everything that I was growing was actually burley. Oh, the horror!! Fingers crossed that the burley would have turned brown during the curing process. I'll keep the leaf on the spare bed - turning away any guests that may want to use the bed, of course - and see what happens. Thanks again...I don't know what I'd do without the great info I get from you guys, other than just blindly muddle on....

 

[deluxestogie]

Good luck. Unknown seed is just as much work as known seed.

Bob

 

[Bex]

It's a miracle.....
I just went inside and took a whiff of the tobacco - both the first and second run. The smell is changing....it is now sweet - it smells like tobacco. I'd like to lie down on the bed and bury my nose in it for hours....
Thank you, thank you.....I think this is actually going to work out. I'm now on my 3rd run...and things are continuing to go well. My Dad would have said that I should be waiting for the other shoe to drop....thus far, it hasn't, and it's very possible that this year will be a success....

 

[Bex]

Hello Strangers.....
My bad - I don't post much here. I just visited to see what was going on here, considering the new UK directive that is attempting to put the kibosh on all leaf purchases. A real mess, but, of course, this makes my 'hobby' all the more important. So, just as an update, my season was a great success this year - I did not have as many plants as previously, which might have been a good thing, and I have found that one side of my tunnel is not quite as productive as the other. Of course, this can be fixed by my input - better fertilization and better care of the soil, etc. However, what was even better was the fact that my curing runs were really successful. My leaf cured yellow, has stayed that color, and after airing it out for a number of months, the smell of it is gorgeous. Of course, the problem arises - will I ever really be able to grow enough to be self sufficient? My blend is 50/50 LV/LB....I tried my hand at LB two years ago. the plants were great, but the shed roof blew off in the midst of their curing. Eck. But I still have some burley seed left, the shed has been repaired, and I will try again this year. In the meantime, everyone I know over here is loading up on their leaf. There are unsettling days ahead....
By the way, while I posted over on another post with this link, here is some interesting info from N2D:
http://nothing-2-declare.blogspot.ie/2017/01/guide-for-registering-for-purchasing_18.html